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TOPIC: Guess What? 'Conspiracies' Do Happen...Even in Life and Death Circumstances

Guess What? 'Conspiracies' Do Happen...Even in Life and Death Circumstances 12 Sep 2012 15:12 #1

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This is completely normal. This sort of thing happens all the time, this is just a high profile case in which a concerted effort has led to a small amount of the truth coming to the surface eventually.

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams...-Liverpool-fans.html
Hillsborough report reveals South Yorkshire Police made 'strenuous efforts' to deflect blame on to Liverpool fans

An independent report into the Hillsborough stadium disaster has concluded that South Yorkshire Police and the ambulance service made "strenuous attempts to deflect blame" for the deaths of 96 Liverpool supporters onto the fans.

In the 394-page report the panel has shed new light on the disaster, including:

• Police carried out criminal record checks on the deceased in an attempt to "impugn their reputations"
• Senior officers privately discussed the "animalistic behaviour" of "drunken marauding fans"
• Evidence that a number of the dead survived "for a significant period" beyond the 3.15pm cut-off point imposed at the original inquest
• 116 of the 164 South Yorkshire Police statements were doctored to remove unfavourable comments
• South Yorkshire Ambulance Service was misleading when it claimed criticism of its conduct made by doctors who were present was factually inaccurate
• There was "no evidence of substance" to support the police account that alcohol and fan aggression played a part in the disaster
• Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher expressed concern in Cabinet that the first inquiry into the disaster contained "devastating criticism of the police"
• The weight placed on blood alcohol levels among the dead was "inappropriate"

The report concludes that police and ambulance service statements were doctored in an attempt to avoid responsibility for the failings of crowd control that were the primary cause of the disaster in April 1989.

The Hillsborough Independent Panel also raises "profound concerns about the conduct an appropriateness of the inquests".

The report finds that the decision of the coroner to rule that all 96 victims died in the same way, and to impose a 3.15pm cut-off time on the inquest, was "unsustainable".

The panel said there was evidence that a number of those that died were alive after the 3.15pm cut-off. The original inquest recorded 96 cases of accidental death, but the families of the deceased have called for those verdicts to be quashed.

In the aftermath, the police claimed that violent behaviour by drunken Liverpool supporters who arrived without tickets was the primary cause of the disaster.

Having reviewed more than 450,000 previously unseen documents, the panel concludes: "The evidence shows conclusively that Liverpool fans neither caused nor contributed to the deaths of 96 men, women and children".

The chairman of the panel, the Bishop of Liverpool the Rt Rev James Jones, said: "The documents disclosed to and analysed by the panel show that the tragedy should never have happened.

"There were clear operational failures in response to the disaster and in its aftermath there were strenuous attempts to deflect the blame onto the fans. The panels detailed reports shows how vulnerable victims, survivors and their families are when transparency and accountability are compromised."
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
Last Edit: 12 Sep 2012 15:12 by wake_up_bomb.
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Re: Guess What? 'Conspiracies' Do Happen...Even in Life and Death Circumstances 12 Sep 2012 15:43 #2

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Who exactly was responsible for all the injuries/ deaths? they must have got in that state somehow.
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Re: Guess What? 'Conspiracies' Do Happen...Even in Life and Death Circumstances 12 Sep 2012 15:46 #3

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And it's only taken them 23 years to admit what most already knew. :mad:
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Re: Guess What? 'Conspiracies' Do Happen...Even in Life and Death Circumstances 12 Sep 2012 17:16 #4

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This story is an interesting way of illustrating a wider theme as well.

This was systematically covered up, we know this for a fact now, for 23 years. Yet it only really required the will of 3 or 4 people, at the most a dozen.

You need a couple of senior police officers to make the decision that the police are going to close ranks, and that they're going to feed false stories to news agencies. Actually, most rank and file did not go along with this, but 116 (over 70%) of South Yorkshire police statements were censored.

In this case, you need one single person to be sympathetic to the stories released to the news agencies, and choose to highlight them. In this case that person was then editor of The Sun, Kelvin MacKenzie. Once he makes that decision, the people who work under his tutelage are simply told to go along with it.

And you need one person in the upper echelons of politics, ideally the Prime Minister, and maybe a couple of members of the cabinet to decide that the government would not openly criticise the police, and that the government's take on the matter would be that there doesn't need to be an official inquiry, and make the tacit suggestion that the behaviour of football supporters was to blame. You then get the whips to communicate this position to the rest of the parliamentary party, who will go along with it like they always fucking do.

It's really quite a simple operation that only a handful of people are directly involved in, yet they managed to suppress the truth of what happened - and we will probably never know the full truth - for over two decades.
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
Last Edit: 12 Sep 2012 17:16 by wake_up_bomb.
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Re: Guess What? 'Conspiracies' Do Happen...Even in Life and Death Circumstances 12 Sep 2012 17:42 #5

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Easily done, ain't it? :(
What we are today comes from our thoughts of yesterday, and our present thoughts build our life of tomorrow: Our life is the creation of our mind.

-Buddha
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Re: Guess What? 'Conspiracies' Do Happen...Even in Life and Death Circumstances 12 Sep 2012 19:29 #6

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Well, bad things can happen to whistle-blowers. :(
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Re: Guess What? 'Conspiracies' Do Happen...Even in Life and Death Circumstances 12 Sep 2012 20:10 #7

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Gilly wrote:
Well, bad things can happen to whistle-blowers. :(

It is all well and good being a WB but you may want to question why they do it. Some are scheming bastards, they do it because they have shit to hide themselves.
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Re: Guess What? 'Conspiracies' Do Happen...Even in Life and Death Circumstances 12 Sep 2012 20:23 #8

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silvershine wrote:
Gilly wrote:
Well, bad things can happen to whistle-blowers. :(

It is all well and good being a WB but you may want to question why they do it. Some are scheming bastards, they do it because they have shit to hide themselves.

Possibly. Not all.

The point is that in this case, I'd be surprised if some people weren't coerced into going along with the publicised lies. Even decent people with consciences are likely to put the welfare of their own immediate family before that of strangers.
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Re: Guess What? 'Conspiracies' Do Happen...Even in Life and Death Circumstances 12 Sep 2012 21:00 #9

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Gilly wrote:
Possibly. Not all.

The point is that in this case, I'd be surprised if some people weren't coerced into going along with the publicised lies. Even decent people with consciences are likely to put the welfare of their own immediate family before that of strangers.
I have heard this suggested strongly by existing police officers on the radio today. Unsurprisingly they've chosen to remain anonymous.
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
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Re: Guess What? 'Conspiracies' Do Happen...Even in Life and Death Circumstances 12 Sep 2012 21:29 #10

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I think we should also remember that for all the talk of certain jobs being 'careers', ultimately, they are jobs.

Have you ever had a really shitty job, along with a shitty boss, who asked you to lie about stuff? I know I have. At the time, I didn't consider the stuff I was lying about to be that important, so I went along with it for the most part. This is how it works, even within 'institutions' like the Police force, quite aside from the point that there were probably very few who knew what actually went on in comparison.

Don't misunderstand me...I've done a fair bit of whistle-blowing in the past. In retrospect, it really didn't change anything in most cases. I had a terrible boss once, who drove me to the point of desperation. For my own sanity, I left the job. A few months later, I heard that this boss was doing the same kind of stuff to one of my colleagues, and that this colleague was taking this boss to a tribunal, of sorts, over it all.

At the time that I was employed there, nobody really believed - or rather were not interested - in what I was saying this person was up to. Once I heard what had gone on, I took it upon myself to write to the people involved explaining why I had left. This boss later left of their own volition and still has a fair career, as far as I'm aware, despite their behaviour.

My point being, it's difficult to grapple with these often faceless 'entities' on your own. I can only imagine how I would have behaved, had I a family to feed and a roof to keep over their heads. What I can say for sure now though, is that I wouldn't ever go quietly again. If not for my sake, then for the sake of those I work with.

Some people see the whole, silly game for what it is and just resign themselves to it. Some people don't dare question authority and do as they're told. I'll add that those with the latter kind of personality often do better in services like the police or the armed forces for very obvious reasons. Not all people with these careers are like that, but it is something that managers and recruitment specialists might look for in prospective candidates, imo.
What we are today comes from our thoughts of yesterday, and our present thoughts build our life of tomorrow: Our life is the creation of our mind.

-Buddha
Last Edit: 12 Sep 2012 21:44 by Abs.
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