noseymutegirl wrote:
As I said, you have to be pretty delusional to think holing up with a load of guns is going to help should the government come knocking nowadays... Guess those wingnuts are proper whacko then eh

dawnbreak wrote:
Well since the Second Amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights.

And The American Revolutionary War was (1775–1783) that should answer your question dawnbreak.

America is a huge country with alot of land in comparison to Great Britain.

So the right to bear arms was given to Americans in case the British Monarchy came back to take this land.

oioioi wrote:
And how do you do that...'remove the motivation'?

Some people are just sick evil fucks, end of. And if they are carrying the means to kill at whim, then I want the right to carry it too, in order to protect myself and my loved ones.

Just being realistic...

That's not in question RA. Why the right was put in the constitution isn't being questioned here. Why people have them today is...

diamondgeezer wrote:
So because 1 in 5,000 or whatever is a sicko, everyone has to have a gun? Is that it?

noseymutegirl wrote:
The militia here are fucking nutjobs ... I'm sure you've heard about them, they come out of Yavapai county. They have talked about blowing the bridges between here and Phoenix and here and the Verde Valley are and then monitoring the backroads to keep the city people and government out. The government part makes me want to slap them upside the head because Embry Riddle is one of the flight training schools for airforce pilots and do they not think the government wont send choppers in?

Yeah, there are a lot of military, ex military here, who seem to be gunning for the government right alongside all the freaking rednecks who don't know what the fuck their doing with an airpistol let alone anything that actually fires bullets then you have the ones who DO know what they're doing and its a toss up which is more dangerous, the morons running around or the ones who can actually hit what they're aiming at

diamondgeezer wrote:
What if they weren't carrying the means to kill at whim?

I don't know what the answer is, my instincts tell me it isn't more guns.

StarsChildren wrote:
I'm not buying that bold bit sorry. Plenty of places have low crime rates without everyone having guns.

dubmeup wrote: I think there are three justifications of which the above is one. I must say that even though I sort of support the constitutional right to bear arms, I do completely agree with you on this topic. I wouldn't even fancy shooting it out with a SWAT team personally, never mind the US military!

I think the second reason is home defence. The US has quite different laws on home defence to the UK, which I would tend to agree with, although I do think it's something you have to be careful with otherwise anyone can just drag you onto their property, shoot you, and then claim they were defending their home. I think that if I lived somewhere like Texas I would have a gun in my house purely because otherwise every fucker else has got one apart from me!

And thirdly is just cultural reasons. But I'm not sure to what extent this affects the whole country, I do think it possibly varies regionally. You'd have to ask someone that knew more than me. I think different attitudes exist. I know you always get people online claiming that The Simpsons is anti-gun ownership for example, even though it obviously isn't.

dubmeup wrote:
Because the NRA is a powerful organization dubs...

.......... wrote:
Do you think they play on people's fears? Sort of fek with the heads of people so that those people then want a gun?

dubmeup wrote:
Possibly... but how many places aren't crawling with CCTV on every light post? That might have something to do with it, and I am not willing to trade privacy for safety, I'd rather be allowed to shoot someone point blank than have a video camera monitoring anywhere near my place.

Also, guns keep the government on their toes a little. They need to ban guns so they can feel safe walking into our homes and slowly (or quickly) taking over every aspect they've been cautious about before. Even die hard patriots, some of them, will tell you if the government started breaking in doors there would be a civil war again and they'd fight against the government. So I think we need to keep our guns, if for no other reason than to make our government think twice before they try to openly overrun us.

Yeah, I lived in Yavapai County, never heard about that big plan though!

Not to mention that there is a black ops base in the Boynton Canyon in Sedona, also in Yavapai County. Did you know about that?

dubmeup wrote:
Dubs the right to bear arms is instilled in US culture the same way the Monarchy is instilled in UK culture.

It goes way back before any of us were ever born so you can't over-analyze it dubs...

StarsChildren wrote: I wasn't talking about Britain
Emphasis on "openly overrun" I suggest. I know the Alex Jones's of the world insist the US gov is gonna round you all up and chuck you in camps but I really can't see them being dumb enough to try. They don't need to anyway as far as I can see from t'other side of the pond. They can pretty much do what they want anyway...

noseymutegirl wrote:
Sure have. Tried to find it once...got too hot and I had the mother and child with me so *shrugs* not a good idea to go stomping around the area. If it was just me though...oh would I have fun

My brother is ex-airforce and did a lot of building planning for them. He swears under Arizona is an entire underground base (the entire state underground).

.......... wrote: I'm not sure that wondering why someone wants to keep a Glock in their Dolce and Gabana make-up bag qualifies as over analyszing

dubmeup wrote:
Not everyone has to have a gun of course... ....its an individual choice.

But those who do choose to own a firearm should have the freedom to do so surely?

Or do you believe that the authorities have the right to tell you what your rights are....

dubmeup wrote:
I hear Europe also has CCTV, might be wrong, but their crawling with surveillance too as far as I know.

*shrugs* possibly they can basically do what they want. But they still try to get public backing for it before they do it. And why do you think that is?
Because 1, they are pretty sure our own soldiers wont open fire on citizens en mass and 2, they know the number of NRA members and private people owning guns out number them. Bomb their own country they might do, and probably have before, but unless it's a nuke and they take out the entire country in one go, there are still a lot of people they have to deal with.

Edit: What has spurred this gun debate over all the country, is the tragic loss of life that has occurred, but is the answer really to ban guns? To take guns away from the citizens who would not run out and do something like this? Or is it to arm our schools, teachers having concealed weapons and being able to shoot back IF the need arises?
Personally, I think it's obvious where I stand... arm our teachers, arm our schools, dare someone to try it again and hurt an innocent child.

diamondgeezer wrote:
Tut tut. I'm asking why gun ownership is such a big thing in the minds of so many US dwelling individuals DG not discussing the rights.