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TOPIC: Climate Change

Climate Change 05 Jan 2013 09:23 #61

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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 03:22 #62

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It is time to take our foot off the gas and develop a cleaner, safer energy system we can all afford.
Kevin Anderson, Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research

Shale gas is the same as natural gas - it is a high-carbon fuel, with around 75% of its mass made of carbon. For the UK and other wealthy nations, shale gas cannot be a transition fuel to a low-carbon future. Anyone who says differently does not understand our explicit international commitments under the Copenhagen Accord, the Cancun Agreements - or, alternatively, is bad at maths.

The UK's commitment to make our fair contribution to reduce emissions in line with keeping global warming below a 2C rise gives a very clear global carbon budget, and hence a UK budget: in other words, how much carbon we can put into the atmosphere over this century. Here the maths is unambiguous - we have insufficient budget for the carbon we are already emitting and by the time shale gas is produced in any quantity (five to 10 years), there will be no emissions space left for it. The maths is that simple, even if the conclusion is not what we want to hear.

Another fundamental mistake made by many experts on shale gas is that they assume it is lower-carbon than coal, but this is valid only if we don't burn the coal. In a world that is hungry for energy, any UK shale gas used here will mean we import less gas and coal - gas and coal that will simply be burnt elsewhere.

The climate does not care from which country the carbon comes from - so burn shale gas here and UK emissions may go down but global emissions will go up. Shale gas is another high-carbon fossil fuel - it just adds to the problem - in the absence of a stringent limit on total carbon emissions it will not substitute for coal.

Finally, even if the technology of "carbon capture and storage" can be made to work with gas - the level of emissions reductions will not be enough to meet our international carbon commitments. In the UK and globally, we are now reaping the reward of a decade of hypocrisy and self-delusion on climate change. We pretend we are doing something ourselves, whilst blaming others for rising emissions.


The truth is out - it is a tragedy of the commons par excellence - we are all to blame and we have left it too late for a technical fix. We are heading towards a global temperature rise of 4C to 6C this century; if we want to get off this trajectory, shale gas needs to stay in the ground and we, in the wealthy world, need to consume much less energy - now.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20758673
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 03:50 #63

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Guevarista wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20758673
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1350206...s-Peter-Sissons.html
The BBC became a propaganda machine for climate change zealots, says Peter Sissons... and I was treated as a lunatic for daring to dissent
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 06:14 #64

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Who pays and finances the BBC, and who pays and finances the Daily Mail?

The daily mail was a Propaganda machine for the likes of Oswald Mosely try and make your point with words or use a better source to attack my source:D
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
Last Edit: 06 Jan 2013 06:16 by Guevarista.
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 06:20 #65

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
Guevarista wrote:
what do you mean in "our" favour?
Western standards would have to decline by a dramatic amount to be worse than the standards most of the 3rd world endure. :thumbup:
I mean 'our' as in you and I. We won't benefit from the carbon market, the trading of water derivatives, etc. Unless you manage a hedge fund. I don't.
Do you benefit from the fossil fuel market?
So why the resistance to change?
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 07:56 #66

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Guevarista wrote:
Do you benefit from the fossil fuel market?
So why the resistance to change?

Im not convinced we will see large decreases in fossil fuel consumption, particularly in certain areas.

In Australia for example, most freight is via Diesel road trains. (lorries) . I dont see any moves or technology that will replace it anytime soon, or the desire to do so. What i see is higher costs for the end consumer, and remember that Oz already has a carbon dioxide price in place and prices are rising, rather than fossil fuel consumption falling.

All the coastal cities have also recently had desalination plants built to provide drinking water. Rainwater harvesting and other technologies were overlooked in the process. They run on coal fired power, nothing else can provide the base load at this time to power them, other than nuclear energy potentially, if such plants existed. And when the worlds largest multinationals and water corporations just spent billions building these things, i doubt they will be put under wraps anytime soon, especially when the politicans were with them every step of the way.

We also have powerful wealthy individuals such as Murdoch, and Jacob Rothschild, who have stakes in large scale oil operations.

If your lucky tho Gue, Jacobs cousin Evelyn will win out perhaps and stop them pumping oil with the help of his el pressidente friend? :larf:

TnEdeRothschildBClinton 110105 3





I wont hold my breath that they will stop the flow of oil. I do expect a global price on carbon dioxide though soon.


Oh and... Groundhog Day?



Y11
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 12:51 #67

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Guevarista wrote:
Who pays and finances the BBC, and who pays and finances the Daily Mail?

The daily mail was a Propaganda machine for the likes of Oswald Mosely try and make your point with words or use a better source to attack my source:D

The latest assessment of the IPCC who are the official source of all this crap is 1.4 ot 6 C rise by the end of the century.
Not 4 -6 degrees.

It is also an average rise, not specific to all regions.

Its also worth noting that present temperature records have so far failed to fit projections.

And finally its worth noting that many low lying land has still yet to be submerged with this mystery sea rise thats not happened.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 12:52 #68

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Guevarista wrote:
wake_up_bomb wrote:
Guevarista wrote:
what do you mean in "our" favour?
Western standards would have to decline by a dramatic amount to be worse than the standards most of the 3rd world endure. :thumbup:
I mean 'our' as in you and I. We won't benefit from the carbon market, the trading of water derivatives, etc. Unless you manage a hedge fund. I don't.
Do you benefit from the fossil fuel market?
So why the resistance to change?

He doesn't benefit from high prices and high taxation, its that simple.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 13:19 #69

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Guevarista wrote:
Who pays and finances the BBC, and who pays and finances the Daily Mail?

The daily mail was a Propaganda machine for the likes of Oswald Mosely try and make your point with words or use a better source to attack my source:D
It's merely a direct extract from his book:

www.amazon.co.uk/When-Door-Closes-Peter-...id=1357478243&sr=8-1

Which I assume you've read. I have. Peter Sissons is obviously quite well placed to give his opinion on the culture at the BBC.
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 15:31 #70

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andyh wrote:
Guevarista wrote:
wake_up_bomb wrote:
Guevarista wrote:
what do you mean in "our" favour?
Western standards would have to decline by a dramatic amount to be worse than the standards most of the 3rd world endure. :thumbup:
I mean 'our' as in you and I. We won't benefit from the carbon market, the trading of water derivatives, etc. Unless you manage a hedge fund. I don't.
Do you benefit from the fossil fuel market?
So why the resistance to change?

He doesn't benefit from high prices and high taxation, its that simple.
hmm that sounds quite selfish really, why shouldn't people pay for polluting the atmosphere in your opinion?
If you wanna use fossil fuels that are destructive to the environment, climate, and long term ecosystem for everybody, then you should be willing to pay a premium imo.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 15:33 #71

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
Guevarista wrote:
Who pays and finances the BBC, and who pays and finances the Daily Mail?

The daily mail was a Propaganda machine for the likes of Oswald Mosely try and make your point with words or use a better source to attack my source:D
It's merely a direct extract from his book:

www.amazon.co.uk/When-Door-Closes-Peter-...id=1357478243&sr=8-1

Which I assume you've read. I have. Peter Sissons is obviously quite well placed to give his opinion on the culture at the BBC.
Ok fair, enough, I don't class him as any kind of authority on Climate change and not really interested in the BBC :sorry:
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 15:35 #72

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The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 15:54 #73

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Important things happen but some people never notice. Accidents intervene. Most are not present at vital episodes. We all reley upon reports, often once read and people shutter their minds. What good are reports. History in a news account. Preselected at an editorial conference, digested and excreted by prejudice. True accounts you need seldom come from those who make history. Diaries, memoirs and autobiographies are subjective forms of special pleading, most written archives are crammed with such suspect stuff.

Seek true freedom and we become captive of our desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.

Ultimately all things are known because we want to believe one knows

Intelligence often takes chance with limited data in an arena where mistakes are not only possible but also necessary.When you think to take determination of our fate, into your own hands, that is the moment you can be confused. Be cautious. Allow for surprises. When we create, there are always other forces at work.
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 17:51 #74

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Guevarista wrote:
andyh wrote:
Guevarista wrote:
wake_up_bomb wrote:
Guevarista wrote:
what do you mean in "our" favour?
Western standards would have to decline by a dramatic amount to be worse than the standards most of the 3rd world endure. :thumbup:
I mean 'our' as in you and I. We won't benefit from the carbon market, the trading of water derivatives, etc. Unless you manage a hedge fund. I don't.
Do you benefit from the fossil fuel market?
So why the resistance to change?

He doesn't benefit from high prices and high taxation, its that simple.
hmm that sounds quite selfish really, why shouldn't people pay for polluting the atmosphere in your opinion?
If you wanna use fossil fuels that are destructive to the environment, climate, and long term ecosystem for everybody, then you should be willing to pay a premium imo.

You think the corporations who produced the polluting stuff with their price fixing cartel pay taxes?
How many times do you need the evidence showing to see it?

The tax money milked from the bottom gets fed back in to pay the bankers at the top, the corporations just up their prices to keep pace with the artificially created inflation in the first place.

Its like you're 10 years behind the rest of us Gue.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 18:30 #75

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This might help explain things.

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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 18:37 #76

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The Apprentice wrote:
This might help explain things.


I've already posted it up 2 or 3 times now.
I guess the message just hasn't sunk in it, nor will it IMHO until the ones who can't see it go self employed themselves and see how the game is rigged.

Simple example number 1.
A company registers for VAT, human beings with 'jobs' do not.
A company charges VAT, human beings with 'jobs' do not.
A company pays VAT for items but then can take that VAT off the VAT they return to govt, a human with a 'job' cannot do this.

It is really,really,really fucking captain obvious what is going on here, lol :D
Maybe its just a case of something that is 'accepted' and never questioned? I dunno :p

As for fossil fuel use...who says that joe average gives a shit what goes in his cars fuel tank just so long as the damn thing moves and so long as he can afford it. Again...really captain fucking obvious time...
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 18:42 #77

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A2 Macro Direct Indirect Taxation Clip Image002


What's this I see here?

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/91589...-but-not-enough.html
Budget 2012: Corporation tax cut will boost UK - but not enough

Britain is on track to have the fourth most competitive rate of corporation tax in the G20 by 2014 - but company leaders said the Chancellor had still stopped short of boosting business confidence

The headline rate of corporation tax will be cut from 26pc to 24pc next month, rather than to 25pc as planned, and to 22pc by 2014. George Osborne said he had put the country "within sight" of a 20pc headline rate, which would be the lowest in the G7 and in Europe's G5, but he disappointed many who had expected more.

Frank Haskew, Head of ICAEW Tax Faculty, said the cut was a "bold move" that would help improve Britain's competitive standing in the world and simplify the system but would "not have an impact for 18 months."

Tim Knox, director of the Centre of Policy Studies, which had called for a radical cut in corporation tax, said: "Despite the bold rhetoric, the tax reforms are timid. They are moves in the right direction but little else. And the tinkering is irksome."

Simon Walker, director general of the Institute of Directors, said: "We should be aiming for a corporation tax rate of 15pc by 2020 – that would put Britain in a very strong position." He added that the Chancellor "had not done enough to free business from the burdens and barriers that are holding economic growth back" and said he would have to go "much further if he wants to fire up the engines of the economy."

Terry Scuoler, chief executive of EEF, the manufacturers' organisation said that while the Chancellor had started positively "by the end of his speech the task of rebalancing our economy looked as daunting as ever." He said the corporation tax cut was "welcome but not the silver bullet that will unlock the business investment our economy urgently needs."
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 19:10 #78

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So, employees pay 130 billion income tax + 70 billion VAT, corporations pay less than 30 billion :D

ffs lol....

Thats without even bothering to add all the other taxes we pay ofc. (and which corporations don't pay)
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 19:10 #79

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And you can employ your misses at around 160.00 a week for book keeping against tax, correct me if I'm wrong, if everyone went self employed, the government would have a pretty big problem on their hands, they might not get paid anything at all, as the people police their labour as itshould be, penny will drop soon enough, lol.
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Last Edit: 06 Jan 2013 19:13 by The Apprentice.
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Climate Change 06 Jan 2013 19:14 #80

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andyh wrote:
Thats without even bothering to add all the other taxes we pay ofc. (and which corporations don't pay)
Fuel duties, Council Tax, stamp duties, tobacco duty, vehicle excise duty, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, beer and cider duties, wine duties and spirits duties, VAT on food being proposed, Carbon Tax is the offing...did I miss anything?

Edit: Just looked this up. Income Tax is now over £160 billion (see page 13):

www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/income-tax-receipts/latest-stats.pdf

Corporation Tax hasn't increased since 2005-06, has fallen since 2007-08, and is approximately £40 billion (see page 10):

www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/ct-receipts/c...n-tax-statistics.pdf

So you can say that Income Tax alone is circa 400% that of Corporation Tax. In response to this the government has slashed Corporation Tax and significantly cut the higher earnings level for Income Tax, and is being encouraged to eventually slash Corporation Tax to 15%, at which point it would be less than the basic rate level of Income Tax.
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
Last Edit: 06 Jan 2013 19:20 by wake_up_bomb.
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