Sanctum Zone

Keyword
A+ A A-
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC: The "better off on benefits than in work" myth

The "better off on benefits than in work" myth 29 Apr 2013 21:54 #1

  • Space Bandit
  • Space Bandit's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 3804
  • Thank you received: 2275
  • Karma: 70
Earlier this month work and pensions secretary Iain Duncan Smith and chancellor George Osborne claimed their changes to our welfare system mean, "no longer will it be possible to be better off on benefits than in work". The prime minister wrote the same in the Sun, calling it a "crazy situation".

The government's line, as it very gradually rolls out Universal Credit from today, that it is "making work pay" has cross-party support. "We would make work pay," promises Duncan Smith's mini-me Liam Byrne, while shadow chancellor Ed Balls affirms that "it must pay more to be in work than live on benefits."

My union's members, tens of thousands of whom work on the benefits and tax credits system, are confused. A jobcentre worker told me: "All the calculators that we use in jobcentres are designed to show that you would be better off in work."

So if politicians are telling us all that you can be better off on benefits, and jobcentre advisers are telling claimants that they would be better off in work, someone is being lied to. But who? Iain Duncan Smith should come clean. But not being one to look for pots of gold at the end of rainbows, I asked my union researchers to look into it.

They found the DWP’s "tax benefit model" – data which showed how much better off people out of work, in a range of circumstances, would be by moving into employment. Publication of this data was, intriguingly, abandoned in 2010 – just after the coalition government was elected, but a similar calculator is still used by DWP staff. It shows what would happen if someone moves into work for 30 hours per week. Even on the minimum wage, the legal minimum, benefits only deliver 79 per cent of what you would be paid in work.

We looked again to see if the same was true for only 16 hours of work – after all there are 1.4 million people working part time because they can’t find full-time work. This time benefits were only worth 81 per cent of a working income. Jobcentre advisers tell me these figures closely match the ones they use today.

For verification, we checked against data collected by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development on all major countries’ welfare systems, including the UK’s. Like the DWP calculator, it factors in housing costs and benefits, and it assesses what is called the "replacement rate" for moving from benefits into work for 30 different household types – and in not one single case would a household be better off on benefits.

It does not feature in either the DWP's or OECD's models, but work might not pay for those who work very few hours in low paid jobs. But the irony here is that Duncan Smith has himself actually made this more likely by increasing the number of hours people need to work before they receive working tax credits.

The "better off on benefits" fallacy has become common. In truth, there has always been a clue that it is an urban myth: no one who claims it exists has ever actually given up work to live the benefits high life. And why not? Probably because deep down they do not believe it, but it is also true that even when the benefit of working is highly marginal, most people want to work. As unemployment climbs above 2.5 million, and 6.8 million counting as underemployed, the reality is there are fewer than half a million job vacancies. The real issue for the government is not making work pay, but making work exist.

PCS members working in jobcentres face a bullying management driving down their own living standards and setting targets that staff are told to deny exist. Low pay is so endemic that up to 40 per cent of the DWP’s own staff will be eligible for Universal Credit themselves. It is grim, far worse than when I started working for the DHSS in the early 1980s. Back then we helped claimants and took as long as was necessary to get them the benefits to which they were entitled.

On the other side of the counter (or more likely now on the other end of a phone) it is even worse, with claimants subject to more and harsher sanctions, unprecedented demonisation from ministers and a Pavlovian press trained to foam at the mouth at the mention of scroungers and skivers.

As well as challenging ministers’ myths, we have a duty to challenge their hatred-inciting rhetoric. So the next time Iain Duncan Smith – or anyone else for that matter – claims people are better off on benefits, hand him a pen and paper and ask him to show you how.

Mark Serwotka is the General Secretary of the Public and Commercial Services Union

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/04/be...llacy-heres-evidence
Set the controls for the heart of the earth.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Gilly, Mike, dubmeup

The "better off on benefits than in work" myth 29 Apr 2013 22:55 #2

  • dawnbreak
  • dawnbreak's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • R.I.P DG xxx
  • Posts: 3533
  • Thank you received: 1198
  • Karma: 94
It's not a complete fallacy though there are certain groups of people who can, on paper be better off on benefits.

Not better off in terms of having savings in case anything goes wrong, life insurance, pensions, investments for the longer term or affording things like new clothes the minute they are needed and buying new instead of off ebay or charity shops, or having holidays or running a car (just examples of the top of my head)

But there are people who can get by, just , on benefits however if they find themselves working minimum wage and losing housing benefit and council tax benefit , childcare costs etc will leave them in a worse position. This group is extremely vulnerable

They are also the 'group' of unannotated shits who fiddle and play the benefit system and get away with it, and will probably continue to do so regardless of who is in power and if tptb started getting tougher with these waste of spaces the ordinary man in the street would be better off
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Mike

The "better off on benefits than in work" myth 29 Apr 2013 23:17 #3

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
Make the uk like china and India way to go British gov keep at it eventually you will swing from lampposts
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.
  • Page:
  • 1
Moderators: psketti, oioioi, batou
Time to create page: 0.152 seconds

Latest Members Blogs

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Prev Next

What is going on when it comes to 9-11 I…

The EPA (environmental protection agency) and OSHA took air samples in the days following September 11th, they reported that they found no excessive levels of asbestos contrary to other findings....

Read more

9-11 Eleven Years Later

9-11 Eleven Years Later

With the anniversary of September 11th literally just around the corner, unanswered questions still remain for families who lost loved ones during the tragic event, as well as from families...

Read more

Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass An…

Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass Animal Deaths

In 2008 the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to review a series of lower court rulings that restrict the United States Navy's use of sonar in submarine detection training exercises off...

Read more

Annual Server Target

Whether its 50 cents or five dollars, your donations are appreciated and help keep this community site running so we can all continue to enjoy using it.
This target is to meet our server cost for one year, June 2020 - May 2021, in USD.
$ 340 - Target
( £ 250 GBP )
donation thermometer
donation thermometer
$ 192 - Raised
( £ 140 GBP )
donation thermometer
56%
Most Recent Donation:
$122 USD on 4th Jan 2021
Bitcoin Address: bc1q0kazqya0nurfxtunxv807vm0m8852nnrrk8mj8
 
Ethereum Address: 0xe69915c80dd75df19f438d556267e04f932f057d
 
More Info: Donation options for TZ

No one is obliged to donate, please only donate what you can afford. Even the smallest amount helps. Being an active member is a positive contribution. Thank You.

TradeZone Latest

Visitors

Today4692
Yesterday8190
Week25378
Month50313
Total1148737

Your IP Address: 216.73.217.36 Your Browser and OS: Unknown - Unknown Friday, 28 August 2026 13:52

Who Is Online

Guests : 1010 guests online Members : No members online
© 2012 – 2021 Sanctum Zone | All rights reserved. This website is a place for people to express and discuss their views on the news and world events. DISCLAIMER: Please Note: Views expressed and submitted by contributors are their own personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions and beliefs of the Sanctum Zone website and its founder(s) , administrators , moderators , and any other website maintenance technicians, personnel and volunteers. Articles and messages posted on this website and forum are solely the opinion of their authors.

Login or Register

LOG IN

Register

User Registration
or Cancel