RealAmerican wrote:
Yes it is definitely our own fault. It's our fault for being HUMAN. We make choices based on our emotions, and unfortunately any logic goes out of the window when are emotions kick in - Yes we are guilty of BEING HUMAN. We are guilty of being so easy to manipulate. We have buttons that can be pressed, and the Illuminati know which ones to press.

Being AWARE of these frailties in the human psyche is one of the first steps back to freedom.

And of course the beauty of it is that if WE are to blame for the mess, then it means that WE are the ones who can change it. Very enpowering.

Steevo wrote:
And it's the parents responsibility to make sure their kids AWARE since they created them...

Thank You Steevo...

RealAmerican wrote:
Yeah, but you're missing the whole point about human behaviour and the fact that people rebel against their parents. Youngsters make up their own minds. I bring my son up to question things and to not believe the media. What if he decides that actually, I'm full of shit though? That happens with parents and their offspring quite often you know.

oioioi wrote:
I was just saying that the powers that be exploit peoples addictions for their own personal wealth.

Steevo wrote:
I don't concur with that. If it can unequivocally be shown that before we are born we choose to be born as humans then it may possibly said that we chose the form so........
Fault by definition attributes a negative. Error, imperfection.

Again, guilty by definition attributes a negative. Wrong doing. Your statement is very much along the lines of original sin.

I choose not to see us in this way because well, it just doesn't sit right with me.

All of this though

As with most things, the answer lies in the middle.
Advertising or promotion is a huge factor.
For a long-time now things are sold to people not by the merits of the product but by the implied lifestyle that the product will bring.
It's why celebrities have been utilised in advertising so effectively.

So your choices are guided by playing on your aspirations for 'something better'.
Yes, ultimately you still make the choice but are you making it objectively?

I think parents can be to blame in some cases. Then again, I think becoming an adult is about taking responsibility. Maybe it's just me, but I came to a point where I realised that I did have issues from the way my parents were, but I also had the power to do something about those issues.

Most people's parents did what they thought was right and are basically good people who mean well and want the best for their children. As an adult you accept that they are just people who are muddling along trying to do the best they can. In an ideal world we can forgive them for their shortcomings and resolve not to let our lives be affected by them, or make the same mistakes.

dubmeup wrote:

You have misunderstood the first two bits. I was answering the question in the same way that it was asked. The word "blame" was used in the opening post, and hence I used the word "guilty".
Nothing to do with "original sin".

Cheers!

LesleyPumpshaft wrote: This ^

Kids don't come with a users manual. (Trust me, if they did I would have hunted down the reset button ages ago and have been looking to replace it by now).
It's often not until they mature and have full responsibility for their decisions that much of what parents tried to tell them makes any kind of sense.

But parents can be wrong too. Well intentioned but still wrong.

feather wrote:
very well said...

I don't buy into the whole Illuminati thing.
Sure there are a bunch of greedy bastards who influence much via their wealth but they are subject to each others greed and ambitions. They'd stab each other in the back in a heartbeat the second it suited them.

I believe that belief in their ultimate power can definitely be an excuse for abdicating responsibility for taking as much control of your own life as possible or practicable.

I hate the title, Illuminati. It confers upon them an illusion of superior/occult knowledge not available to the rest of us.
In effect they become untouchable, unquestionable priests. Fuck that!

feather wrote:
They can definitely still be wrong. There's a world of difference between having parents that were wrong and misguided to having parents that were complete arseholes though.

I get annoyed when adults blame their bad behaviour on things like the fact their parents got divorced, and yes, I have come across this. Once your an adult it's up to you to sort it out.

Steevo wrote: Ah right, sorry if that's not what you were saying in the first bit. Saw the post in isolation and misunerstood it

dubmeup wrote:
No worries!

I want to respond to this. The problem as I see it with the "illuminati" is that of apathy. You have Alex Jones etc telling you that both parties are controlled by the illuminati so you say voting is usueless(which might well be true at a certain level) however totally taking no part in politics is foolish and exactly what they want I think.

I do not think Occupy etc are dead by any means. Here in Atlanta "Occupy Atlanta" are working with people to help them keep their homes that face foreclosure. If anything the problems with such anti war marches in the past is the lack of defined objectives. They said "we are against the idea of war with Iraq" . War happened anyway so then they were like "now what".

The individuals are aware of the problems in many cases. Plenty of people are not pro monarchy. The problem is perhaps that many are just too busy living their lives to spend too much time on the bigger picture. Having said that there are lots of people out there doing their bit. Plenty of these people would probably laugh at the idea of "illuminati".

You can assign blame to people or individual groups or whatever but really if you see a problem in your approach then change your approach and if you see it in others mention it to them.

I see practical responses to problems as the best way of fixing things. If the problem is that the t.v. is brainwashing people to join the army and support invading other countries then turn off the t.v. or try and change what is on t.v. Try and educate people in your community. Perhaps support veterans for peace. Some sort of viewing of winter soldier at a local community gathering etc. Build from the bottom.

Really that is my issue with much of the Icke stuff and that is simply that it distracts people from the very real stuff that goes on.

Frog wrote:
To say that the enemy is mind control and social conditioning sounds like more excuses.

Frog the rest of your post was good and I agree about education.

But when its all said and done it just sounds like more excuses for lack of quality parenting.

Im aware of youth peer pressure also but that is just another excuse.

We have a problem with humans not the powers that be.

The Illuminati are the good guys, who is the man you think about when you think Illuminati?

Adam Weishaupt aka "Spartacus", the founder of the Bavarian Illuminati, he said some terribly evil things
such as:
Why did he found the Bavarian Illuminati?
"Spartacus" was a slave who lead a "slave rebellion" against the Roman Republic.

Guevarista wrote:
Illuminati is just another word for "TPTB" "Elite" "wealthy class" "top 1%" "ultra rich" in the thread title.

My view on the subject is that i think there is a conspiracy to try and shape peoples actions,habits and thought patterns ie society.

The use of firearms in movies
Films constantly portray firearms as being empowering and the answer to most of the problems in the movies,these films constantly show that killing with guns solves everything!

Is it chance that the high streets have been flooded by bookmakers and that supermarkets are mostly stocked with processed food and only a small section is set aside for fresh vegetables,fruit and unprocessed meat.

Is it just a random action that the internet is full of porn websites and gambling websites?

What about people in armed forces uniform being at most sporting events nowadays,is that down to chance?

There are many more society molding aspects of modern day life which i haven't mentioned which i am sure people are aware of on this forum.
What i have noticed about the above things in society is that they are all how a psychopath would choose society to become or be influenced by.Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom,Irresponsibility,Impulsiveness,Lack of remorse or guilt,Emotionally shallow and so on.

So is it a case of the PTB wanting to mold mankind and womankind into a more psychopathic/sociopathic state of mind?

Regarding the Illuminati i haven't come to a conclusion whether they exist,existed,were good for society as a whole or good for themselves.