Sanctum Zone

Keyword
A+ A A-
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: Free will

Re: Free will 06 Sep 2012 18:00 #21

  • mikey mikey
  • mikey mikey's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 6518
  • Thank you received: 3378
  • Karma: 23
oioioi wrote:
The only plausible way I can expect to experience pure freedom is if I lose the idea of 'I', in other words a return to the source/pure energy/God or whatever you wish to call it.



It isn't how much freedom and choice you have but what you do with the freedom you do have and the choices you make with it.
thank you St Jude for favours granted
Last Edit: 06 Sep 2012 18:01 by mikey mikey.
You must register to post here.

Re: Free will 06 Sep 2012 18:10 #22

  • oioioi
  • oioioi's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Zone Facilitator
  • Rankmod
  • with my droogs
  • Posts: 13058
  • Thank you received: 7307
  • Karma: 91
mikey mikey wrote:
oioioi wrote:
The only plausible way I can expect to experience pure freedom is if I lose the idea of 'I', in other words a return to the source/pure energy/God or whatever you wish to call it.



It isn't how much freedom and choice you have but what you do with the freedom you do have and the choices you make with it.

Free will?
:conf:
If you have any issues with the forum or it's members, for a speedier response, rather than pressing the report button, please post them here: sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/Forum-Projects--...scussion-thread.html
You must register to post here.

Re: Free will 06 Sep 2012 18:30 #23

  • mikey mikey
  • mikey mikey's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 6518
  • Thank you received: 3378
  • Karma: 23
oioioi wrote:

Free will?
:conf:

What I am trying to say is this: whatever part of your choice is determined by external and/or enviromental and genetic/hormonal etc forces, ones only concern is the part in which you may exercise your dscrection.

I would suggest the role that this takes is much larger than what many religious people and most "informed by sciemce" so-called experts would like you to believe.
thank you St Jude for favours granted
Last Edit: 06 Sep 2012 18:31 by mikey mikey.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: andyh, oioioi

Re: Free will 06 Sep 2012 19:29 #24

  • Abs
  • Abs's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • How are you thinking today?
  • Posts: 6891
  • Thank you received: 3940
  • Karma: 112
oioioi wrote:
Personally I don't believe in complete freedom in an existential sense, our very existence and the form it takes means we are governed by certain factors, even if these factors are merely the belief of that which governs us (physics/religion). The only plausible way I can expect to experience pure freedom is if I lose the idea of 'I', in other words a return to the source/pure energy/God or whatever you wish to call it.

Some call that "the meaning of life". ;)
What we are today comes from our thoughts of yesterday, and our present thoughts build our life of tomorrow: Our life is the creation of our mind.

-Buddha
You must register to post here.

Re: Free will 06 Sep 2012 19:43 #25

  • oioioi
  • oioioi's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Zone Facilitator
  • Rankmod
  • with my droogs
  • Posts: 13058
  • Thank you received: 7307
  • Karma: 91
Hmmmm, does free will mean we are all free to interpret what free will means on an individual basis?

Is free will subjective?

Am I now essentially posting "Define free will"?

The irony!
If you have any issues with the forum or it's members, for a speedier response, rather than pressing the report button, please post them here: sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/Forum-Projects--...scussion-thread.html
Last Edit: 06 Sep 2012 19:43 by oioioi.
You must register to post here.

Re: Free will 08 Sep 2012 16:40 #26

  • Guevarista
  • Guevarista's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Voluntarily Inactive
  • Rank0
  • Posts: 1365
  • Thank you received: 247
  • Karma: 14
mikey mikey wrote:
oioioi wrote:

Free will?
:conf:

What I am trying to say is this: whatever part of your choice is determined by external and/or enviromental and genetic/hormonal etc forces, ones only concern is the part in which you may exercise your dscrection.

I would suggest the role that this takes is much larger than what many religious people and most "informed by sciemce" so-called experts would like you to believe.

I'd say your "discretion" is still governed by your choice, and ability to choose, those choices also are governed by social forces, cultural ethics, values, etc, ie If somebody held ignorant views against an ethnic group, it would be "nice" to just accept his opinion, not to contradict him, for his peace of mind, or to allow him his beliefs, it would cause conflict if you were to argue with him, it might cause his reality to collapse if you prove him wrong, so the choice on what to do is dependent on perceived consequences for other people, it might satisfy you personally to beat him up, but what if everybody acted that way?

Ultimately cultural, genetic and philosophical input determines the parameters for the debate and conceptualization of freewill, so the debate itself is dependent on external contributions superior to and facilitating any idea of individual free will(development of language, reason and philsophy), any philospher you'd care to cite on freewill probably owed a lot of his "individual free will" to his environmental and educational influences.

I don't really think individual freewill exists, nor god in any religious or official conception.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
Last Edit: 08 Sep 2012 17:00 by Guevarista.
You must register to post here.

Re: Free will 08 Sep 2012 17:37 #27

  • mikey mikey
  • mikey mikey's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 6518
  • Thank you received: 3378
  • Karma: 23
Guevarista wrote:
I don't really think individual freewill exists,.

Do you therefore believe in 100% pre-determinism?
thank you St Jude for favours granted
You must register to post here.

Re: Free will 08 Sep 2012 18:36 #28

  • Guevarista
  • Guevarista's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Voluntarily Inactive
  • Rank0
  • Posts: 1365
  • Thank you received: 247
  • Karma: 14
Not at all, for instance, I believe humans can influence climate change if they reduce carbon emissions and burning of fossil fuels.

money, tradition, lifestyle, awareness all contribute to how humans respond to climate change, so that would rule out freewill on two fronts, the external events provoking a reaction,, climate change and the external influences that determine people's reactions to the prospect of either contributing or being subject, to change.

Do you have a compatibilist perspective?

I like this in relation to freewill:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will#In_Buddhist_philosophy
Buddhism accepts both freedom and determinism (or something similar to it), but rejects the idea of an agent, and thus the idea that freedom is a free will belonging to an agent.[109]... Buddhists believe in neither absolute free will, nor determinism. It preaches a middle doctrine, named pratitya-samutpada in Sanskrit, which is often translated as "inter-dependent arising". This theory is also called "Conditioned Genesis" or "Dependent Origination". It teaches that every volition is a conditioned action as a result of ignorance. In part, it states that free will is inherently conditioned and not "free" to begin with. It is also part of the theory of karma in Buddhism. The concept of karma in Buddhism is different from the notion of karma in Hinduism. In Buddhism, the idea of karma is much less deterministic. The Buddhist notion of karma is primarily focused on the cause and effect of moral actions in this life, while in Hinduism the concept of karma is more often connected with determining one's destiny in future lives.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
Last Edit: 08 Sep 2012 19:53 by Guevarista.
You must register to post here.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Moderators: oioioi, psketti, batou
Time to create page: 0.116 seconds

Latest Members Blogs

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Prev Next

What is going on when it comes to 9-11 I…

The EPA (environmental protection agency) and OSHA took air samples in the days following September 11th, they reported that they found no excessive levels of asbestos contrary to other findings....

Read more

9-11 Eleven Years Later

9-11 Eleven Years Later

With the anniversary of September 11th literally just around the corner, unanswered questions still remain for families who lost loved ones during the tragic event, as well as from families...

Read more

Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass An…

Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass Animal Deaths

In 2008 the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to review a series of lower court rulings that restrict the United States Navy's use of sonar in submarine detection training exercises off...

Read more

Annual Server Target

Whether its 50 cents or five dollars, your donations are appreciated and help keep this community site running so we can all continue to enjoy using it.
This target is to meet our server cost for one year, June 2020 - May 2021, in USD.
$ 340 - Target
( £ 250 GBP )
donation thermometer
donation thermometer
$ 192 - Raised
( £ 140 GBP )
donation thermometer
56%
Most Recent Donation:
$122 USD on 4th Jan 2021
Bitcoin Address: bc1q0kazqya0nurfxtunxv807vm0m8852nnrrk8mj8
 
Ethereum Address: 0xe69915c80dd75df19f438d556267e04f932f057d
 
More Info: Donation options for TZ

No one is obliged to donate, please only donate what you can afford. Even the smallest amount helps. Being an active member is a positive contribution. Thank You.

TradeZone Latest

Visitors

Today993
Yesterday6532
Week36527
Month61462
Total1159886

Your IP Address: 216.73.217.106 Your Browser and OS: Unknown - Unknown Sunday, 30 August 2026 07:38

Who Is Online

Guests : 1018 guests online Members : No members online
© 2012 – 2021 Sanctum Zone | All rights reserved. This website is a place for people to express and discuss their views on the news and world events. DISCLAIMER: Please Note: Views expressed and submitted by contributors are their own personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions and beliefs of the Sanctum Zone website and its founder(s) , administrators , moderators , and any other website maintenance technicians, personnel and volunteers. Articles and messages posted on this website and forum are solely the opinion of their authors.

Login or Register

LOG IN

Register

User Registration
or Cancel