andyh wrote:
What's the name of that bill again andy? Was that the one me and you got into for a little while yonks ago, or is that something different?

No amount of guns will make us safer imho.

the thing about authority figures and guns is exactly the same as having moderators on a forum - sometimes it is necessary to give others the authority to use force or a delete button when people are unwilling to moderate themselves - sometimes those authority figures need to arm themselves with guns or a banstick - the problem arises when the trust in those wielding the authority is either abused or lost.

psketti wrote:
National Defense Authorization Act. I think

thoreau wrote:
For the first time ever, I vehemently disagree with thoreau.
There's a difference between a ban button and murder, especially when the ones in authority are the biggest murderers of all, why give them even more free reign? Why let them create rules when the rules only apply to those who follow them and when the ones who follow them are usually the ones not doing anyone any harm at all?

May aswell bend over and let them shove a red white and blue bayonet where the sun don't shine....which is ofc pretty much what is happening right now.

If you like that sort of thing you may aswell invite sean to moderate this forum.

@andy - You have kinda proven my point which was about trust - if you trust the person wielding the gun to use it only in self defense a gun can serve a purpose - without that trust however - it all goes to shit...

thoreau wrote:
But yet it's purely because of people who aren't trustworthy, and own guns because they intend to cause harm, that those of us who trust ourselves to only defend ourselves should, imo, have the opportunity to do so. So it already is shit.

It was only relatively recently that I learned the police in America are obliged, if they draw their guns, to 'shoot to kill', rather than hinder or maim. That came as an unpleasant surprise.

Gilly wrote:
Blimey. Reminds me of the Gurkhas and their kukri.

thoreau wrote:
Trust Obama and his psycho policy enforcers?
Nope, don't think so

andyh wrote:
me neither and cant fathom why some do

@gilly you are right it is already shite for sure - I just cant help feeling as if adding more guns to the mix just is not helpful - my personal choice is even if given the opportunity I would not own one - not because I do not trust myself but because I do not feel the need to arm myself - I may be being entirely naive - but it is how I feel

though as always that is subject to change.

Just to give a few examples of why I don't trust the British police and would like to see them have as few weapons as possible, see recent Hillsborough admission (I will concede that many rank and file officers made useful statements which were covered up), disgraceful de Menezes shooting and lies related to it, I can never find a link to this, but there was an incident where the police broke into someone's home and shot someone under the 'Terrorism Act', lied and said someone else did it, and then had to concede that they were lying.

Here is the Daily Telegraph, let me repeat that, the Daily Telegraph, criticising the police for abusing 'anti-terror' legislation:

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-vie...ror-legislation.html

Guess what? They didn't:

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/12/euorpe...e-misuse-stop-search

Even the Daily Mail reported on the unlawful nature of thousands of 'stop and search' procedures:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1285562...r-stop-searches.html

Here's a list of police officers in court for "abus[ing] their position to inappropriately target, assault or harass vulnerable individuals or have been investigated for such offences".

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/ju...olice-officers-court

Here's a Guardian report on sexual abusers / predators in the police:

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/29/guardi...n-abuse-power-police

Here's an editorial about police abuse of power (unlike The Week, I wouldn't recommend an official inquiry, this would be pointless):

www.theweek.co.uk/opinion/49028/police-a...%80%99s-time-leveson

Here's an article about the police misusing and abusing CCTV:

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/ju...-inquiry-police-cctv

This just scratches the surface and only deals with offences that we know about. I used to work with a police officer, who had spent his whole working career in the police, and who was by no means against it as an institution, and he told me that in the seventies and eighties, the police used to 'fit people up' all the time. His exact words were "it probably happens less now, but it will still go on".

This is why I don't feel any safer when I'm at an airport and I see a police officer with a machine gun. I feel considerably less safe.