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TOPIC: Ukraine gas and guess who.

Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 19:37 #101

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Wise Haven wrote:
angelchemuel wrote:
Thanks QS...yes, I got it slightly wrong there!

As to the threat...sounds like more American "watch the bastards deny it" crap.....
Ah well....we'll know who's calling who's bluff tomorrow am.....but there again, to come up with such a weird time makes me think the Amerikkans have something planned to make it look like "the Russians did it"!

Cying out loud...get your tin foil hat off Jane :knit:

:jane:

Don't be so tin hattist Jane - critical thinking is one benefit of filtering out those directed microwave weapons :)

Kerry and McCain are some seriously CFR/PNAC types - and their recent missions and involvement in Syria and Ukraine are no accident - they are carrying a very critical agenda on behalf of US foreign policy which is definitely not benevolent to any right thinking person.

Talking tin foil hat - I do note that tommorow is the date given for likely collapse of US economy predicted by Grady Means in the Washington Times: www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/25...to-crash-march-2014/
War makes money they say so maybe this conflict arrived just on schedule? :roll:
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 19:44 #102

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Awwwww nawwwwww....did you have to report that QS? :)
*goes off in search of tin foil hat, sits in corner sucking her thumb*
:jane:
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 19:44 #103

hugorune wrote:
John Kerry on NBC’s Meet the Press
Transcript here www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-pres...-march-2-2014-n42471

Russia has major investment in trade needs and desires. I think there's a unified view by all of the foreign ministers I talked with yesterday, all of the G8 and more, that they're simply going to isolate Russia. That they're not going to engage with Russia in a normal, business-as-usual manner.

Because Russia is inviting opprobrium on the international stage. There could even be ultimately asset freezes, visa bans. There could be certainly a disruption of any of the normal trade routine, and there could be business drawback on investment in the country. The ruble is already going down and feeling the impact of this.

And the reason for this, David (interviewer), is because you just don't invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests. There are ways to deal with this. And President Putin knows that. President Obama yesterday offered mediation. There are plenty of ways to protect Russian-speaking people in Crimea or other parts of Ukraine. But they are really sort of a hidden pretext here, possibly trying to annex Crimea.

Really? So what about US foreign policy for the last 60 years, Johnny? :facepalm:

Link to RT article rt.com/news/kerry-russia-us-pretext-494/

I’m telling you, this is B-grade comedy at this point :facepalm:

They’re just so pathetic: “There could even be ultimately asset freezes [...]” assets mostly owned by corrupted Russian oligarchs, that Putin just happens to hate with undying passion, yeah! That’ll fuck ‘em Ruskies right up!
.

[...] visa bans”

Yeah!!!
I’m sure those filthy Russians are mourning over their Orlando-Florida vacations as we speak.
And I’ll ignore the rest, because... it’s just too easy....

Give me something to work with you, Skull&Bones, Chapter 22, Kerry bonehead! :redx: *shakes head*
Last Edit: 03 Mar 2014 20:12 by and Justice for All.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 20:07 #104

Wise Haven wrote:
Don't get your angle Justice.

Isn't swearing allegiance to the Crimea a De Facto demonstration of allegiance to the Russians?
Just putting it out there - its still isnt clear in my mind yet.

Whilst that may very well be the case...
....but, quite frankly, who cares at this point? I surely don’t, neither does he, apparently... so...

What I wanna know, is how many military officials welcome, AND pledged alliance with open arms to either the US military and/or NATO folks when they showed up? Hmm?

Angle! Pfff! :roll:
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 20:25 #105

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Ahh well...doesn't look like we're talking to the US!
UK will not be using military intervention, neither will it be taking financial or other sanctions against Russia! Whilst over the Pond Barry declared Russia has broken International Law!
London can't afford financial sanctions against Russia.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 20:27 #106

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@ Justice - B-grade comedy....it always looks like that to me (Abbott and Costello lol) But I still shake my head in wonder that the majority of the US public believes this crap. Even worse is that the US still uses the same hackneyed plot - but maybe that is a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix/change it.
I used to feel the same about Pravda during the Cold war days....but the shoe is on the other bloc nowadays.

"Give me something to work with you, Skull&Bones, Chapter 22, Kerry bonehead! :redx: *shakes head* " - Thanks, forgot about those nuggets of conspiracy.

The Ukranian prime minister is a no brainer.....he has Goldman Sachs written all over him; therefore a grand Nato/EU/US puppet/player.

For the audience they are gonna split the Ukraine down the Dneiper - This will be a key point in averting a war footing if that isnt the current game plan.
My Rights End Where Yours Begin so give me space FFS
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 21:07 #107

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Am i reading this right?
Crimea has now got it's own navy and is aiming to go from semi autonomous to autonomous.
They like the Russians.
So if they achieve full autonomy they are lawfully fine to have as big.a.friendship with russsia as they like.
Quite a good play if that's how they are going about it.
Have a referendum, act on it, job done.
And putin can legitimately say that russian forces are there to facillitate the peaceful political process.

Whilst...
The new neo nazi head of ukranian defence sent troops to the crimea, no doubt to claim it back.
Those troops promptly defected. Which fould reasonably be taken as a sign they do not want to be told what to do by nazis..

And kerry, hague et al....are sticking up for the nazis in the name of democracy and international law.

It kind of makes one think one has been right all along no?
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 21:27 #108

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Good game...good game......chess.....yup....that about sums it up dubs!
Never take a russian on that's good at chess....
:jane:
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the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 21:33 #109

wake_up_bomb wrote:
hugorune wrote:

[...]

IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north.
YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Nuclear threat, naval Response to shoot-down of US plane.
URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength.
GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.
GERMANY 1948 Nuclear Threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.
CHINA 1948-49 Troops/Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.
PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.
PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.
KOREA 1951-53 (-?) Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.
IRAN 1953 Command Operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.
VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat French offered bombs to use against seige.
GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.
EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops. Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.
LEBANON l958 Troops, naval. Army & Marine occupation against rebels.
IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat. Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.
CHINA l958 Nuclear threat. China told not to move on Taiwan isles.
PANAMA 1958 Troops. Flag protests erupt into confrontation.
VIETNAM l960 75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats. Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.
CUBA l961 Command operation. CIA-directed exile invasion fails.
GERMANY l961 Nuclear threat. Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.
LAOS 1962 Command operation. Military buildup during guerrilla war.
CUBA. l962 Nuclear threat, naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union.
IRAQ 1963 Command operation CIA organizes coup that killed president, brings Ba'ath Party to power, and Saddam Hussein back from exile to be head of the secret service.
PANAMA l964 Troops. Panamanians shot for urging canal's return.
INDONESI l965 Command operation. Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Army & Marines land during election campaign.
GUATEMALA l966-67 Command operation. Green Berets intervene against rebels.
DETROIT l967 Troops. Army battles African Americans, 43 killed.
UNITED STATES l968 Troops. After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.
CAMBODIA l969-75 Bombing, troops, naval. Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.
OMAN l970 Command operation. U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.
LAOS l971-73 Command operation, bombing. U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside.
SOUTH DAKOTA l973 Command operation. Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.
MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat. World-wide alert during Mideast War.
CHILE 1973 Command operation. CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.
CAMBODIA l975 Troops, bombing. Gassing of captured ship Mayagüez, 28 troops die when copter shot down.
ANGOLA l976-92 Command operation. CIA assists South African-backed rebels.
IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.
LIBYA l981 Naval jets. Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.
EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops. Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.
NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval. CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.
LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops. Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions. 241 Marines killed when Shi'a rebel bombs barracks.
GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing. Invasion four years after revolution.
HONDURAS l983-89 Troops. Maneuvers help build bases near borders.
IRAN l984 Jets. Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.
LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval. Air strikes to topple Qaddafi gov't.
BOLIVIA 1986 Troops. Army assists raids on cocaine region.
IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing. US intervenes on side of Iraq in war, defending reflagged tankers and shooting down civilian jet.
LIBYA 1989 Naval jets. Two Libyan jets shot down.
VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm.
PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets. Air cover provided for government against coup.
PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing. Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.
LIBERIA 1990 Troops. Foreigners evacuated during civil war.
SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets. Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.
IRAQ 1990-91 Bombing, troops, naval. Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.
KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.
IRAQ 1991-2003 Bombing, naval No-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south; constant air strikes and naval-enforced economic sanctions
LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.
SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.
YUGOSLAVIA 1992-9 4 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing. No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.
HAITI 1994 Troops, naval. Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.
ZAIRE (CONGO 1996-97 Troops at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.
LIBERIA 1997 Troops. Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
ALBANIA 1997 Troops. Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
SUDAN 1998 Missiles. Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant.
AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.
IRAQ 1998 Bombing, Missiles. Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.
YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles. Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.
YEMEN 2000 Naval. USS Cole, docked in Aden, bombed.
MACEDONIA 2001 Troops. NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.
UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC
AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime, and battle Taliban insurgency. More than 30,000 U.S. troops and numerous private security contractors carry our occupation.
YEMEN 2002 Missiles. Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.
PHILIPPINES 2002-? Troops, naval. Training mission for Philippine military fighting Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into combat missions in Sulu Archipelago, west of Mindanao.
COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops. US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.
IRAQ 2003-? Troops, naval, bombing, missiles. Saddam regime toppled in Baghdad. More than 250,000 U.S. personnel participate in invasion. US and UK forces occupy country and battle Sunni and Shi'ite insurgencies. More than 160,000 troops and numerous private contractors carry out occupation and build large permanent bases.
LIBERIA 2003 Troops. Brief involvement in peacekeeping force as rebels drove out leader.
HAITI 2004-05 Troops, naval. Marines & Army land after right-wing rebels oust elected President Aristide, who was advised to leave by Washington.
PAKISTAN 2005-? Missiles, bombing, covert operation. CIA missile and air strikes and Special Forces raids on alleged Al Qaeda and Taliban refuge villages kill multiple civilians. Drone attacks also on Pakistani Mehsud network.
SOMALIA 2006-? Missiles, naval, troops, command operation. Special Forces advise Ethiopian invasion that topples Islamist government; AC-130 strikes, Cruise missile attacks and helicopter raids against Islamist rebels; naval blockade against "pirates" and insurgents.
SYRIA 2008 Troops. Special Forces in helicopter raid 5 miles from Iraq kill 8 Syrian civilians
YEMEN 2009-? Missiles, command operation. Cruise missile attack on Al Qaeda kills 49 civilians; Yemeni military assaults on rebels
LIBYA 2011-? Bombing, missiles, command operation. NATO coordinates air strikes and missile attacks against Qaddafi government during uprising by rebel army.

:bravo:

Thanks for that timely reminder, because I surely don’t have the energy to record them all.

Thanks :)
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 21:53 #110

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angelchemuel wrote:
Good game...good game......chess.....yup....that about sums it up dubs!
Never take a russian on that's good at chess....
:jane:
If this pans out the way i think it may, on the surface i'd be.on the verge of declaring putin the greatest international politician possibly ever..
Hot on the heels of averting western invasion of syria and shoving rhetoric right back up kerry's ass!
To forge an alliance with an autonomous crimea would fatally expose the nazis in ukraine imo.
Again, western expansionism would be thwarted and rhetoric shoved...

But.
Part of me draws focus further back.
The brics nations are on the rise whilst weatern economies are plundered to the point of death...
Manufacture is all brics near enough...

Perhaps this is all part of the plan?
Perhaps putin and kerry are sharing a virtual vodka and slapping each others backs right now in the plutocrats office of all plutocrats offices?
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 21:55 #111

dubmeup wrote:
Am i reading this right?
Crimea has now got it's own navy and is aiming to go from semi autonomous to autonomous.
They like the Russians.
So if they achieve full autonomy they are lawfully fine to have as big.a.friendship with russsia as they like.
Quite a good play if that's how they are going about it.
Have a referendum, act on it, job done.
And putin can legitimately say that russian forces are there to facillitate the peaceful political process.
old what to do by nazis [...]

They will! :)
Don’t quote me, but last I heard there’s a Crimea independence referendum scheduled for the 30th of march... I can google it for ya if you press me... but please...
:give:
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 22:26 #112

Wise Haven wrote:
@ Justice - B-grade comedy....it always looks like that to me (Abbott and Costello lol)) [...]

You’re not kidding ;)

.Wise Haven wrote:
[...] But I still shake my head in wonder that the majority of the US public believes this crap. Even worse is that the US still uses the same hackneyed plot - but maybe that is a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix/change it [...]

No, no.
I believe you’re onto something there. The American public- sorry to say - are indeed a lost cause.
.
Wise Haven wrote:
[...] but the shoe is on the other bloc nowadays.[...]

Well... I sure know they’re not liking it, but what you gonna do :dunno:
;)


.

Wise Haven wrote:
[...] The Ukranian prime minister is a no brainer.....he has Goldman Sachs written all over him; therefore a grand Nato/EU/US puppet/player.

For the audience they are gonna split the Ukraine down the Dneiper - This will be a key point in averting a war footing if that isnt the current game plan.

Yeah.... that’s probably true. I certainly wouldn’t put it pass them. But, maybe they don’t even have to do a Greece-style stealth looting, chances are they’re going with a standard-economic hit-man, IMF looting instead.
Last Edit: 03 Mar 2014 22:30 by and Justice for All.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 22:36 #113

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RT News.....Crimea Air Force base sides with local authorities
45 mig29 fighter jets and 800 servicemen at the base

So, the navy have sided with Crimea and now the Air force there, and the soldiers at the army base seemed to be quite happy to be surrounded by what was purported to be Russian troops......hey ho.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 22:38 #114

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angelchemuel wrote:
Good game...good game......chess.....yup....that about sums it up dubs!
Never take a russian on that's good at chess....
:jane:
Indeed "Good game, good game" Brucie's price is always right ...god forgive me :axe:
As for Putin and his chess abilities: I don't know why but I like the guy OK, all the info I have about him has come through a, probably, biased translation process - either for or against.
At the end of the day, geopolitics is a cunning game and we need to be wary of anything that links personality with policy - as it is usually the glamour or the faeries....or Dobby the house elf in this instance.
My Rights End Where Yours Begin so give me space FFS
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 22:46 #115

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@WiseHaven.....as dubs said
If this pans out the way i think it may, on the surface i'd be.on the verge of declaring putin the greatest international politician possibly ever..
:thumbup:

:jane:
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 22:50 #116

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@ Justice
"Yeah.... that’s probably true. I certainly wouldn’t put it pass them. But, maybe they don’t even have to do a Greece-style stealth looting, chances are they’re going with a standard-economic hit-man, IMF looting instead."

Yep! That smacks of either desperation or supreme confidence. They have had to play a stealth game in the EU but we all know that chaos ( natural disaster, war, economic meltdown etc) brings its own advantages. In the Ukraine we could, arguably, state that at least two conditions are in play or imminent.

Guaranteed: If the Ukraine goes West it will experience IMF looting - a likkle bit now and a Huuuuuuge bit later.
My Rights End Where Yours Begin so give me space FFS
Last Edit: 03 Mar 2014 22:51 by Wise Haven.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 22:52 #117

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I didn't mean any implication that i would place a.x in the putin box btw.

I loathe politicians.
I'd have no doubt lamped chavez if he came round for a spliff. :coffee:
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 22:57 #118

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What's the deal with the army base.then? Other forces pledging to crimea but not them?
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 23:01 #119

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I don't think the army have come out and out and declared either way.....but they didn't look unhappy being 'surrounded' lets put it that way.
:jane:
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Ukraine gas and guess who. 03 Mar 2014 23:09 #120

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22:25: Poland has invoked Article 4 of Nato's founding treaty, under which consultations can be requested when an ally feels their security is threatened. Polish President Bronislaw Komorowski has said that while the Ukraine crisis is not a direct threat to Poland and that the country is safe, Poland wants to enlist Nato as a tool to work for stabilisation in Ukraine

Live updates here
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26413953

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the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war
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