I was going to get some kip but I started watching and its good stuff

Maybe Charlie Skelton at the guardian will cover it?
The guardian and the telegraph seem to be leading the change at the moment with cnbc in the US.

The daily mail will probably end up last...

Roger Hayes, Brian Geerish and the Lawdul Rebellion movement are really gaining momentum and IMHO are the only serious solution available and deserve as much support as we can give them.

You maybe interested in this...
Lawful Bank Home Page

Lawful bank PDF

andyh wrote:

Virtually nothing on Mr Hayes on t'internet, 'cept this...

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UPDATED: Wirral man jailed for refusing to pay council tax

10:50am Friday 6th July 2012
By Stephanie Cureton »

A WIRRAL man whose supporters tried to “arrest” a judge last year has been sent to prison for not paying his council tax.

On Monday, Roger Hayes - chairman of the British Constitution Group - became only the second person in Wirral to be jailed for not paying the tax.

When the authorities tried to bring him to book last year for the same offence, there was a riot that closed streets around Birkenhead.

More than 600 people turned out to support him in his protest that council tax was unlawful.

They stormed Birkenhead County Court and tried to perform a citizen’s arrest on Judge Michael Peake, who had to be rescued by police in scenes of uproar.

A council spokesman confirmed Mr Hayes has now been handed a 21-day sentence by magistrates for “wilful refusal” to pay his council tax bill.

Officers issued a warrant for his arrest on Saturday after he failed to show up for a hearing last week.

This time, the rioting protestors stayed away.

Council leader Phil Davies said: “Beginning committal proceedings for non-payment of council tax is very much a last resort for any local authority but, in this instance, the magistrate agreed that Mr Hayes had wilfully refused to pay and committed him to prison for 21 days.

“Cases such as this are thankfully very rare but the outcome proves that in circumstances where an individual makes a conscious decision not to pay their council tax and efforts to force them to do so fail, the result is that they will go to prison.

“Council tax is an essential means of revenue enabling the council and other agencies to provide valuable services on behalf of local residents.

“We appreciate that there may be circumstances where people are having difficulties paying their council tax through hardship and we would urge these people to get in touch with us as soon as possible so we can work together on a solution.”

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Check the comment(s) on left side of article.

LoneMyst wrote:
That article is factually incorrect! There was not a mob of rioting supporters a fact that can be verified by watching the numerous video clips, of events both inside and outside the court.

Roger hasn't refused to pay his council tax he has with held payment subject to the resolution of procedure relating to the legality of charges levied by the council and the court process employed to charge people with nonpayment. The courts aren't following correct procedures and are acting unlawfully! This is something which Roger Hayes and others have been challenging through the court system.

As for the council charges they provide poor services and totally mismanage the funds consistently! There is also some doubt about the way these charges are used and whether they are actually used for the purposes councils claim. There are questions being asked to establish the legality of the collection and distribution of the funds extorted by local councils.

The Judge who was arrested on the day by citizens was removed from their custody by the Police. He has since taken early retirement from the bench to avoid being charge with operating illegally as a Judge.

The police have broken their their oaths of office by failing to uphold their common law duties. Roger has made charges against the officers and chief constables involved AFAIK.

Roger Hayes was imprisoned unlawfully in a star chamber court. Due process was not followed the details of that are covered in this thread and the supporting videos.

There were actually more than 600 members of the public present on the day the Judge was arrested. According to unofficial figures the numbers present were more like 700. The protest passed peacefully with the exception of the police action against the members directly involved with the physical arrest of the Judge. Details of the incident are available on youtube with footage covering the scenes inside the court room. The violent actions of the police against members of the public are evidenced in the footage, when they were duty bound to arrest the judge. Search for Birkenhead Judge arrested.

Birkenhead court arrest from another angle...

I hate to state the obvious here, but doesn't the imprisonment of Roger Hayes give a pretty damning conclusion?
For all the years of learning what not to say in court, technicalities of the law etc, etc, and after all that he still ends up in prison.

lawful - Conforming to, permitted by, or recognized by law or rules.
rebellion - Resistance to or defiance of any authority, control, or tradition.

So it's resistance by conforming. Doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

TAMS on the other hand, now that's a frigging fantastic idea! Getting people to sign up to an alternative monetary system sounds infinitely more fruitful than promoting novel and exceptionally complicated ways to get yourself thrown in jail for non payment of council tax.

Here is some information relating to the government request for removal of that video UK Government Orders Youtube to censor Protest Videos of Roger Hayes. This link to that footage is still blocked for viewers in the UK... The youtube clip above is accessible via a proxy providing a geolocation originating in the USA. Why does the British government insist on trying to block this content?

John Hurst is another member of The Lawful Rebellion/British Constitution group. He has 30 years experience as a police constable. In this video he is commenting on the position of the police and other legal aspects of the Birkenhead Judge arrest attempt.

boywonder wrote:
Lawful Rebellion is defined by the British Constitution. It is the remedy open to the people as a defense against a failed, corrupt and/or treasonous government. The case for treason is easy to establish since the government and the queen broke their oaths and handed control of our legal and political process to a foreign power (the EU).

Roger Hayes getting illegally imprisoned by a star chamber court is unconstitutional and doesn't follow the due process of law, it's totally unlawful! It's simply a step on the path to change and serves to demonstrate the total corruption of the legal system in the UK. It's hardly the end of the fight on the contrary it's just the beginning of the road to reform.

If you investigate The British Constitution Group, Lawful Rebellion and the Lawful Bank you will see that it is a complete package which includes an alternative legal system purely based on common law, a return to Policing by Constables rather than police officers. Removal of party politics and whips which will be replaced by independent members of parliament with no illegal/unconstitutional whips. Removal of the current banking system with the introduction of a new fractional reserve banking system and new currency. Taxation will also be reformed once the current repayments of interest for the fraudulent bank bailouts and EU obligations cease. Political and financial control will return to local systems which cater for their local constituents first and extend to national interests secondly. As I understand it. There is plenty of information available on the web with finer points available to people personally attending meetings about The Lawful Bank.

The basic framework and infrastructure are being established and has been on going over the last two or three years. The only requirement now is reaching a critical mass which is great enough for the breaks to be let off.

There is only one power behind any government and that is the sweat and blood of each and every living soul living within the borders of a given geolocation. The government is what we say it is, and it's clear to everyone that the current system is totally corrupt and unsustainable. Everyone agrees that something needs to change. This is the opportunity for people to be the change and define what they want government to be.

It's not a complicated process and the only significant change is the devolution of the current corrupt parliamentary, legal and banking systems. These systems only really require a return to a constitutional process based on common law principles and the implementation of personal responsibility which is applied to all members of society from the top down, expanding nationally from a local level. There doesn't need to be a huge upheaval for this to become a reality! The first step really only requires the Police to do their job under their oaths to uphold/reestablish common law. Once common law has been established again the courts can be held accountable, at which point the government will be accountable to the common law courts. The process is already in place the issue is the lack of accountability and total corruption at every level which has brought the system down.

The only thing which holds most people back from this logical progression is based on FEAR and the knowledge of the abuse of power at every stage of the current process. We have nothing to fear from these feral political, legal and financial fictions because they have no power if we cease to empower them. It's game over for the old guard they are history and they are currently just milking the system for everything they think they can get. They are running scared of the people because they can't take on everyone on a global scale. Ireland, Greece and Spain could bring the whole thing down in an instant if they over throw their corrupt governments and simply say NO! The people are all ready making it clear that they have had enough and lines are being drawn. You can't speak to anyone in the street anywhere who disagrees with the need to remove their government. Even the politicians and bankers know the game is up and that they are living on borrowed time.

Just say NO!

Frog wrote:
Except that if you push 'them' to far they'll throw you in prison anyway.


Most people I speak to can't even see past the most basic and easy to point out corruptions of the fantasy world they live in.

Those people with enough sense to see the benefits of leaving the regular banking system, in favour of something that works for them? As I said, great idea. As for all the rest of it, I just see it as trying to force the horse to drink the water... People like the system. I'm sure most people on forums like this have probably experienced the negative reactions gained from trying to show someone the 'truth'. The alternative banking system on the other hand, that has a chance with some people. All I'm trying to say is, why don't they focus all their efforts on that? The rest of the LR stuff just seems way to complicated for most people.

The reason that the Lawful Rebellion solution is a package deal is because you can't have one without the other. In order to establish the legality and enforce The Lawful Bank courts are required to uphold common law principles. The British legal system is trying to prevent the application of common law. The only thing that allows the current system to thrive is the self serving and self preserving mechanisms born out of the corruption and unlawful administration at every level and stage of the process.

It's hardly complex and the only complexity that exists comes from the legal arguments required as a result of the perversion of our political and legal processes. Most people of average intelligence understand common law principles and right from wrong.

I have no idea about the people you come in contact with but I can honestly say I don't know a single person who agrees with the bank bailouts, or trusts our politicians. I don't think people view the corruption in the financial and political arenas as conspiracy theory, when they can see and feel the effects of it everyday both directly and indirectly.

At this stage of the game no conspiracy theory needs to be presented to establish the fact that major fraud and mismanagement has taken place at every stage of the process.

Understanding the British constitution is hardly taxing. The issue is that the state is attempting to discard it and establish the false notion that the UK has no constitution. The only way they can maintain the illusion is due to the fact that the legal system is now corrupt and unlawful. The glue which hold the system together is the fear of the legal system by individuals. The fear is only maintained because people understand that the system is totally corrupt, especially with respect to matters relating to the state. If you polled a random sample of people from across the country I think you would be hard pushed to find a significant number of people who would disagree. The problem is that at least 80 percent of the people polled would rather not rock the boat at this stage, due to fear of personal harm or loss at the hands of the state. Which effectively establishes the fact that we are living in a fascist state. The mistake we all seem to make is we assume that the people blowing the breeze in the conspiracy realm actually have the back bone to stand up and make a difference. I personally think that that is a foolish notion, because most people would father talk shit about BS conspiracies than take positive actions or even simply offer moral support to people making an effort to bring about change. The majority of people actively involved with the LR movement aren't going to be found on mainstream conspiracy forums. They tend to be on forums with a more regional aspect which have more localised groups of active members taking part and a much more focused area of interest. Anyone interested in getting involved can get details of events and contact coordinators for the LR on their website www.lawfulrebellion.org/new-events/ .

Frog wrote:

I totally hear you on that one frog. I still think you could have a little too much faith in the general public. If it's not even possible to get the so called conspiracy theorists to find common ground on relatively simple issues, what fucking hope is there for all the rest?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I totally respect the fact that you DG and novum have put so much effort into getting this place off the ground. There are some really cool people here, but the problem of finding common ground and moving forward to solutions is just not going to go away. It now seems apparent to me that some so called 'AWAKE' people, are actually very negative and have no interest in getting off there arses to do anything constructive. (Which is kind of similar as what you said above, I know).

Personally, I have all the time in the world for helping people. But today I really, really learnt that some people just don't want help. I don't expect everyone to agree with every bloody thing I post, but at the same time, disagreeing just for the sake of starting some kind of bullshit argument? Yeah that's really productive. If someone tells me 'shut up', or just simply ignores what I said, that to me is a much bigger statement, I would then go away and actually ponder what I'd said in the first place. And then move forward. Move on. Even try to improve my arguments and reasoning next time around. I always seem to find common ground in the end with people that have raw passion... why? Because despite the fact that we've just ripped each other to pieces, we both have good intentions, and therefore, when the dust has settled, we put our egos away, shake hands, and move the fuck on.

I hope any of that makes sense. I'm very sad. I would like to be made voluntarily inactive with immediate effect please.

I sincerely wish all of you good guys and gals the best of luck. You know who you are.



Take care and all the best.

M

boywonder wrote:
There's not much you can do imho except take the self employed route and responsibly spend your money in the local community and in your own veg and water and power even if you can manage it.
Thats practical and the stupid law we have won't pester you over it. If everyone became self employed then the system would collapse (in fact, it wouldn't take anything like everyone self employed to send things into a tailspin). I would expect that they would try to change the law to only apply to corporations to push out the small man
However...if they do that then they are looking at another problem arising from having bugger all contractors available for all sorts of work.


Sad to see you go boywonder, some of your posts were interesting and a lot were amusing too

Re lawful bank, I don't agree with it at all. The last thing I want to see is yet another fractional reserve bank.
Ireland has plenty of credit unions but they are FR and are just run by the bigger banks anyway. Its a f*cking joke.
I won't settle for anything less than treasury printed money and outlaw of FR banking.

@AH the problem isn't the process of FR it's the abuse of the FR system and the application of interest that is the reason it is perceived as the root problem. Remove the abuse and interest and FR is a workable process for managing and introducing/releasing equity of future labor and produce.

A agree Boywonder going inactive is disappointing to say the least.

Roger Hayes was released on Friday 20th July 2012 this interview was recorded on the 23rd of July.

Frog wrote:
We'll have to agree to disagree on that point.
You can never have a sound economy based on printing money out of thin air for loans and expanding the monetary supply.
It needs to be printed by govt treasury alone and at 0% interest and banks must take entire responsibility for what they loan, they should only exist for business tbh.
You should never need to borrow money. If you do then you're not being paid enough or prices are manipulated, simple as.

If all the banks started loaning money on fractional reserve at 0% interest then you would have to ask the question why would they bother? lol.

EDIT: I see this- www.positivemoney.org.uk/our-proposals/ as being the answer.

Have you actually listened and understood Roger Hayes Lawful Bank Proposal? Because your reply would suggest that you haven't listened to the proposal and if you have you have failed to understand what was presented.

Whether people should or shouldn't borrow money or what the cost of things is is irreverent and bears no resemblance to reality.

If FR is managed responsibly it functions fine as a means of exchange and financial management.

If someone borrows money at 10:1 for a loan interest free and the bank removes the repayments from circulation and instead of interest they charge an administration fee what is the issue? Should bank staff work for free or should they charge a fee directly related to the real world cost of provisioning a service? The person borrowing is releasing their sweat equity before it has been expended which is the whole principle behind a loan along with the promise to repay. No system is sustainable if the generation or money is associated with anything that has no real equitable value, which is the case under the current system.

FR is only a problem when it is abused and interest is applied at the point of creation. It actually makes no difference who actually prints the money if no interest is applied as a component and it is managed correctly. If there is too much money in circulation the fraction can be adjusted to cause a contraction and conversely increased to allow expansion.

The main point is that money should be an exchange mechanism for real good, labor and tangible product and productivity.

As for people/communities being in a position of greater prosperity etc. that is covered in the British Constitution Group presentations which ties into the Lawful Bank. The information can be found here on the site or by taking the time to search the web and video sites etc.

Frog wrote:
Then the admin fee has to be worth the hassle and no doubt added to the repayments Frog.
Same game, sorry I don't go for it at all.

I'm afraid whether or not people should have to borrow at all is a very real reality Frog.
Available credit= inflated prices.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here having considered a few things.

The British Constitution Group's use of the Union Flag is a circle that I can't square. I've been trying to but no, aint happening. The use of such a symbol tells me I have nothing in common with them and they are at best blind at worst total tossers.

The Lawful Bank. Nope, not buying it. A complete and utter crock of yet more illusory nonsense. Once you've seen that any form of money is just a means of manipulating real world wealth you just can't fall for nonsense like a "lawful bank".

This lot are suss as fuck.

dubmeup wrote:
Agreed.
The lawful bank = hand over your Sterling and they give you fresh monopoly money. What are they gonna do with the Sterling?
Imagine telling the Mrs you'd just swapped all the savings for some monopoly money!
I can see the BNP lurking in the background of this for some reason, and certain endorsers of this BCG such as Ray St Clair are ropey customers.

Space Bandit wrote: Absolutley 100% agreed. This lot are wolves in sheep's clothing. I hear some of this stuff and just get the image of John Tyndall in my head.