dubmeup wrote:

Having read through the thread I have to agree with dubs, (oww that hurt!)
The UK has an uncodified 'constitution' which is in a constant state of flux/interpretation as new laws and treaties bear influence and take precedence.
The Magna Carta has been mentioned many times but to my recollection it was sealed but unsigned by John and was rejected by him almost immediately as having been agreed to under duress. It was also a document which aimed to have the King accountable to only 24 Barons. Very, very little of the principles included still apply in any shape or form.

The test is always through the courts and few if any claims manage to stand up there. That can either be attributed to a corrupt or confused legal system or that the plaintive misunderstands the applicable law.

Ideally a written constitution would clarify that but don't be looking for it anytime soon.
Corruption and self-interests of the wealthy and powerful is not a recent development. The freeman referred to in these documents does not apply to Peter Peasant, it refers to his masters, because they compiled the laws to cover their interests.

feather wrote:
Bloody hell!!! Screenied for posterity

dubmeup wrote: What have I done!!

You made a sad old man with bad breath do this

So no bad thing

feather wrote: Common law pecedence yep
Correct.
And again spot on.
Damn right, there is nothing set in stone in the UK, this is how they get by.

Exactly as I said before, yep.

For the record, dub don't want no stinky constitution. Dub want personal responsibility. If we get that one sorted, everything else will fall into place. Any 'revolution' that doesn't involve the individual taking responsibility for their actions is a revolution dub will oppose.

dubmeup wrote:
Unfortunately you won't see that for another few hundred years or so, lol.

andyh wrote:
If the Western World continues on this course then I don't see people, as we understand the term, being here in a few hundred years.
In fact I can't even see the post humans being here. I can see an undercurrent though that whilst not strong enough to over-ride the tiller just yet, may gain in strength and steer us away from the rocks.

dubmeup wrote: Who then determines what is responsible or irresponsible actions?
Who determines and enacts the appropriate penalties for irresponsible actions?
What happens to those people who have an incapacity to fend for themselves or be able to determine a degree of responsibility, as a result of mental illness or disability for example?

Not having a dig, genuinely interested.
If people all came out of the box at the same level of potential I would have less dilemmas with pure anarchism.

feather wrote: Everyone being the same would be more akin to transhumanism/hive mind. For what I am talking about to be possible, literally every control system we have would have to go. Our focus would have to shift from success in the external world to success in the internal one. As in such things as our education systems would have to have a very big change of focus for example.

I reckon you're going to need another species to pull that off mate.

feather wrote:
Haha looks that way at the moment doesn't it! Every single aspect of our society is designed to stop it happening.
The more you look at it, the more you see this is the case. Why? Because a responsible, self reliant populace would not be controllable. No control=no power for the few.
It's not our species that keeps us in this state, it's our conditioning.

I'm of the opinion that it runs deeper than that.
We evolved as a pack animal, we function at our best when we incorporate our individual strengths to benefit the pack.
With pack/tribal/collective living comes compromise, compromise in turn reduces some aspect of the individuals preferences.
We are successful because we utilise the pack members skills, talents and abilities to enhance the community, (we extend that to include other species, dogs, cats, falcons, horses, etc) in such a way as to become symbiotic.

Up to that point everything is fine, it's the calculated and tolerated corruption, manipulation and distortion of those benefits to enhance the 'few' to the detriment of the 'whole' which needs addressed and controlled.

Our pack instinct also perceives anyone not operating within the pack structure as a lone wolf, and therefore a threat which is easily chased off/killed by the pack.
Therein lies the essence of politics. ^

I agree that living in a pack involves individual compromise. This to me is integral to personal responsibility. One cannot do just as one pleases as one would have to measure the consequences for the community. To act from a place blind to that would not be responsible

This thread has gone somewhat off topic. The original reference to the constitution was made because Roger Hayes was actively involved with the British Constitution Group. Roger is in prison because he understands the need for action and has personally taken actions he believes in even though he has suffered loss and harm at the hands of the state he opposes.

No critical mass will ever be reached unless people like Roger Hayes stand up for all those unwilling to do so themselves. The legal system is a weapon used to maintain oppression and protect the criminal activities of the state. Attempting to disarm your enemy is a logical course of action. Challenging and exposing the corruption of our system and all of its processes is simply one proactive aspect people can chose to be involved in. It is certainly raising awareness and helping edge us towards a critical mass. There are very few sane adults who are unaware of the fact that the system is totally corrupt and has failed.

There is no legitimate legal or political process in operation today!

Sorry for straying frog and that last post.....

Rusty and Malcolm, Roger Hayes ,Guy Taylor Birkenhead Magistrates Court Tuesday 3rd May 2011

It should be noted that there is much more to Roger Hayes than his position of withholding his council tax payments.

Free Roger Hayes Manchester 5th July 2012

TNS Radio Update on Roger Hayes Arrest.