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TOPIC: Marxism

Re: Marxism 30 Jul 2012 01:44 #241

  • mushy
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andyh wrote:
mushy wrote:

if power comes from wealth alone then its greed that drives it,
ask queenie to put her hand in her purse or get a tenner out the atm has she got it ?
but she commands an army she has power
she lives in luxury dependant on those on benifits or in jobs support for her
her wealth is tied up in shares stocks etc if she was pay armies wages out her bank account like private buisness she would be skint within
weeks ,
its tax from the people that pay their army so why doesnt the army swear alegiance to the people and not lizzie who pays them nowt ?

Taxes,benefits and wages are all money.
no taxes paid by people pay armies wages ,
and your reply gas little to to.with original context of that answer .

benifits are not a wage that is tory rhetoric your red n black flags turning blue i think the flagpoles turning into a gallows lol
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Re: Marxism 30 Jul 2012 01:45 #242

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mushy wrote:
andyh wrote:
mushy wrote:
andyh wrote:
mushy wrote:
andyh wrote:
mushy wrote:
do protests achieve anything?

as a measure and as a catalyst for ideas yes they do ,
if the success of a protest is measured in direct actions as a result of it then its debatable but protests are initially about being heard getting a point across and as such they do seem to achieve their goal .

protest succes is not an exact science , i dont think you
can say protests in lybia were a failure or those in egypt couldve done better ir even that occupy didnt have some degree of success .

Lybia was armed rebellion (not exactly protestors and banners was it?) and I'm not so sure they actually got success so to speak. Out of the frying pan and into the fire IMHO.
it ended up armed rebellion or an armed protest ,
it was a complete success whether you like it or not the outcome was achieved .
gaddafi was a dictator they wanted him gone
they succeeded protest worked theres no ifs or buts .

It remains true that they achieved what they wanted with violence, not protest.
I would actually be more likely to back violence than protest.
Banners don't scare the elite.

it ended up violent because the lybian elites got scared at all those banners and people on the street andyh ,
the armed rebellion was more deffending as the protestors were fired on by people scared by banners .

i wouldnt advocate anykind of violence personally ,
id rather armies saw that they are the same as people the elites tell them to fire on but they eventually do allbeit to late to save the killed
and injured .

They got what they wanted with violence not banners, stop wriggling lol.
Protesting has nothing to do with all out street warfare ffs lol :D
say what ?

you do know people are following this thread and are capable of figuring out what you just did there llol .

i repeat the armed response was in deffence after gaddaffi sent his army in to fire on protestors , lybian gov feared protestors so much they escalated violence but andyh sees that different and says im wriggling , thunder thief lol

fail .

So what you're saying is that protesting is productive because people get shot at and then get angry enough to fight.
lol :D
You can protest first then :p
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: Marxism 30 Jul 2012 01:47 #243

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mushy wrote:
andyh wrote:
mushy wrote:

if power comes from wealth alone then its greed that drives it,
ask queenie to put her hand in her purse or get a tenner out the atm has she got it ?
but she commands an army she has power
she lives in luxury dependant on those on benifits or in jobs support for her
her wealth is tied up in shares stocks etc if she was pay armies wages out her bank account like private buisness she would be skint within
weeks ,
its tax from the people that pay their army so why doesnt the army swear alegiance to the people and not lizzie who pays them nowt ?

Taxes,benefits and wages are all money.
no taxes paid by people pay armies wages ,
and your reply gas little to to.with original context of that answer .

benifits are not a wage that is tory rhetoric your red n black flags turning blue i think the flagpoles turning into a gallows lol

Its all about money mushy.
Benefits are money.
Taxes are money.
Wages are money.

I never said benefits are wages. Is English your first language?

I know that might take a little while to sink in, but you'll get there in the end.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: Marxism 31 Jul 2012 00:04 #244

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andyh wrote:
mushy wrote:
andyh wrote:
mushy wrote:
andyh wrote:
mushy wrote:
andyh wrote:
mushy wrote:
do protests achieve anything?

as a measure and as a catalyst for ideas yes they do ,
if the success of a protest is measured in direct actions as a result of it then its debatable but protests are initially about being heard getting a point across and as such they do seem to achieve their goal .

protest succes is not an exact science , i dont think you
can say protests in lybia were a failure or those in egypt couldve done better ir even that occupy didnt have some degree of success .

Lybia was armed rebellion (not exactly protestors and banners was it?) and I'm not so sure they actually got success so to speak. Out of the frying pan and into the fire IMHO.
it ended up armed rebellion or an armed protest ,
it was a complete success whether you like it or not the outcome was achieved .
gaddafi was a dictator they wanted him gone
they succeeded protest worked theres no ifs or buts .

It remains true that they achieved what they wanted with violence, not protest.
I would actually be more likely to back violence than protest.
Banners don't scare the elite.

it ended up violent because the lybian elites got scared at all those banners and people on the street andyh ,
the armed rebellion was more deffending as the protestors were fired on by people scared by banners .

i wouldnt advocate anykind of violence personally ,
id rather armies saw that they are the same as people the elites tell them to fire on but they eventually do allbeit to late to save the killed
and injured .

They got what they wanted with violence not banners, stop wriggling lol.
Protesting has nothing to do with all out street warfare ffs lol :D
say what ?

you do know people are following this thread and are capable of figuring out what you just did there llol .

i repeat the armed response was in deffence after gaddaffi sent his army in to fire on protestors , lybian gov feared protestors so much they escalated violence but andyh sees that different and says im wriggling , thunder thief lol

fail .

So what you're saying is that protesting is productive because people get shot at and then get angry enough to fight.
lol :D
You can protest first then :p

you said protesting achieves nothing i pointed out it achieved regime change in libya
the gov in libya got scared of protesters and set the army on them so the protesters took up arms .
3rd or 4th time ive repeated that now but dont worry it will sink in :killinme:
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Re: Marxism 05 Aug 2012 15:24 #245

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Dialectical Materialism excerpt from here:
The development of scientific thought in the European countries in the 17th and 18th centuries displayed some really contradictory characteristics, which still remain typical of the approach of bourgeois theoreticians today. On the one hand there was a development towards a materialist method. Scientists looked for causes. They didn't just accept natural phenomena as god-ordained miracles, they sought some explanation for them. But at the same time these scientists did not yet possess a consistent or worked-out materialist understanding; and very often, behind the explanations for natural phenomena, they also saw, at the end of the chain, the hand of God at work.

Such an approach means accepting, or at least leaving open the possibility, that the material world we live in is ultimately shaped by forces from outside it, and that consciousness or ideas come first, in the sense that they can exist independently of the real world. This approach, which is the philosophical opposite of materialism, we call 'idealism'.

According to this approach, the development of mankind and of society - of art, science, etc. - is dictated not by material processes but by the development of ideas, by the perfection or degeneration of human thought. And it is no accident that this general approach, whether spoken or unspoken, pervades all the philosophies of capitalism.

Bourgeois philosophers and historians in general take the present system for granted. They accept that capitalism is some kind of finished, complete system which is incapable of being replaced by a new and higher system. And they try to present all past history as the efforts of lesser mortals to achieve the kind of 'perfect society' which they believe capitalism has achieved or can achieve....

Marxism therefore represents a systematic and fundamental break with idealism in all its forms, and the development in it place of a materialist understanding of what is taking place in reality. Materialism in this sense provides one of the basic starting points of Marxism. The other basic starting point is dialectics.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
Last Edit: 05 Aug 2012 15:27 by Guevarista.
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