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TOPIC: Bishop Desmond Tutu speaks up about Blair and Bush

Bishop Desmond Tutu speaks up about Blair and Bush 03 Sep 2012 10:43 #1

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www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/sep/02/...raq-war-desmond-tutu

Archbishop Desmond Tutu has called for Tony Blair and George Bush to be hauled before the international criminal court in The Hague and delivered a damning critique of the physical and moral devastation caused by the Iraq war.

Tutu, a Nobel peace prize winner and hero of the anti-apartheid movement, accuses the former British and US leaders of lying about weapons of mass destruction and says the invasion left the world more destabilised and divided "than any other conflict in history".

Writing in the Observer, Tutu also suggests the controversial US and UK-led action to oust Saddam Hussein in 2003 created the backdrop for the civil war in Syria and a possible wider Middle East conflict involving Iran.

"The then leaders of the United States and Great Britain," Tutu argues, "fabricated the grounds to behave like playground bullies and drive us further apart. They have driven us to the edge of a precipice where we now stand – with the spectre of Syria and Iran before us."

But it is Tutu's call for Blair and Bush to face justice in The Hague that is most startling. Claiming that different standards appear to be set for prosecuting African leaders and western ones, he says the death toll during and after the Iraq conflict is sufficient on its own for Blair and Bush to be tried at the ICC.

"On these grounds, alone, in a consistent world, those responsible for this suffering and loss of life should be treading the same path as some of their African and Asian peers who have been made to answer for their actions in The Hague," he says.

The court hears cases on genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes. To date, 16 cases have been brought before the court but only one, that of Thomas Lubanga, a rebel leader from the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), has been completed. He was sentenced earlier this year to 14 years' imprisonment for his part in war crimes in his home country.

Tutu's broadside is evidence of the shadow still cast by Iraq over Blair's post-prime ministerial career, as he attempts to rehabilitate himself in British public life. A longtime critic of the Iraq war, the archbishop pulled out of a South African conference on leadership last week because Blair, who was paid 2m rand (£150,000) for his time, was attending. It is understood that Tutu had agreed to speak without a fee.

In his article, the archbishop argues that as well as the death toll, there has been a heavy moral cost to civilisation, with no gain. "Even greater costs have been exacted beyond the killing fields, in the hardened hearts and minds of members of the human family across the world.

"Has the potential for terrorist attacks decreased? To what extent have we succeeded in bringing the so-called Muslim and Judeo-Christian worlds closer together, in sowing the seeds of understanding and hope?" Blair and Bush, he says, set an appalling example. "If leaders may lie, then who should tell the truth?" he asks.

"If it is acceptable for leaders to take drastic action on the basis of a lie, without an acknowledgement or an apology when they are found out, what should we teach our children?"

In a statement, Blair strongly contested Tutu's views and said Iraq was now a more prosperous country than it had been under Saddam Hussein. "I have a great respect for Archbishop Tutu's fight against apartheid – where we were on the same side of the argument – but to repeat the old canard that we lied about the intelligence is completely wrong as every single independent analysis of the evidence has shown.

"And to say that the fact that Saddam massacred hundreds of thousands of his citizens is irrelevant to the morality of removing him is bizarre. We have just had the memorials both of the Halabja massacre, where thousands of people were murdered in one day by Saddam's use of chemical weapons, and that of the Iran-Iraq war where casualties numbered up to a million including many killed by chemical weapons.

"In addition, his slaughter of his political opponents, the treatment of the Marsh Arabs and the systematic torture of his people make the case for removing him morally strong. But the basis of action was as stated at the time.

"In short, this is the same argument we have had many times with nothing new to say. But surely in a healthy democracy people can agree to disagree.

"I would also point out that despite the problems, Iraq today has an economy three times or more in size, with the child mortality rate cut by a third of what it was. And with investment hugely increased in places like Basra."
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: Bishop Desmond Tutu speaks up about Blair and Bush 03 Sep 2012 11:18 #2

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he has a point but i'm not sure he with this correct on this bit

left the world more desta­bilised and divided “than any other con­flict in his­tory”.
Last Edit: 03 Sep 2012 11:20 by dawnbreak.
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Re: Bishop Desmond Tutu speaks up about Blair and Bush 03 Sep 2012 11:24 #3

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dawnbreak wrote:
he has a point but i'm not sure he with this correct on this bit

left the world more desta­bilised and divided “than any other con­flict in his­tory”.

I didn't expect that Dawn :)
You could be right...although the 'war on terror' aspect has been promulgated by media more than a war in iraq and it's this 'war on terror' mindset thats causing the hassle.
Would there be this split and conflict if it weren't for all the disinformation and action on the part of western govt that is so hypocritical?
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: Bishop Desmond Tutu speaks up about Blair and Bush 03 Sep 2012 11:48 #4

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The war on terror could last forever which is exactly how it has been designed. We are all potential terrorists or insurgents. So in that respect I would say he is correct to say that
the inva­sion left the world more desta­bilised and divided “than any other con­flict in his­tory”
It was after all just a small piece of a bigger puzzle. Of course history is all relative but I would not say he was wrong.
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Re: Bishop Desmond Tutu speaks up about Blair and Bush 03 Sep 2012 11:50 #5

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i-baster wrote:
The war on terror could last forever which is exactly how it has been designed. We are all potential terrorists or insurgents. So in that respect I would say he is correct to say that
the inva­sion left the world more desta­bilised and divided “than any other con­flict in his­tory”
It was after all just a small piece of a bigger puzzle. Of course history is all relative but I would not say he was wrong.

The war on terror started before the war in iraq invasion though, I think thats what Dawn means.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: Bishop Desmond Tutu speaks up about Blair and Bush 03 Sep 2012 14:27 #6

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dawnbreak wrote:
he has a point but i'm not sure he with this correct on this bit

left the world more desta­bilised and divided “than any other con­flict in his­tory”.

Hyperbole? Certainly.

But does he have a valid point?

I would say he does.
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Re: Bishop Desmond Tutu speaks up about Blair and Bush 03 Sep 2012 14:33 #7

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It was nice knowing you Desmond... :gn:
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Re: Bishop Desmond Tutu speaks up about Blair and Bush 03 Sep 2012 15:33 #8

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oioioi wrote:
It was nice knowing you Desmond... :gn:

:)

When you think when it comes to how we still use mass violence to show disagreement the world hasn't advanced very much in that respect.

Its 2012 not fucking 1066.
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Re: Bishop Desmond Tutu speaks up about Blair and Bush 03 Sep 2012 21:00 #9

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Fair shout to the chap but does anyone really think that Bush and Blair were behind the lies, the propaganda and the invasion of Iraq?
Take them to the Hague for sure and take every single civil servant, "intelligence" agent, lobbyist, funder and profiter of the lie with them. Take the fucking lot to jail and leave them there.
Last Edit: 03 Sep 2012 21:01 by dubs.
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Re: Bishop Desmond Tutu speaks up about Blair and Bush 03 Sep 2012 23:30 #10

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dubmeup wrote:
Fair shout to the chap but does anyone really think that Bush and Blair were behind the lies, the propaganda and the invasion of Iraq?
Take them to the Hague for sure and take every single civil servant, "intelligence" agent, lobbyist, funder and profiter of the lie with them. Take the fucking lot to jail and leave them there.

I take your point but until we start taking out the puppets people aren't gonna realise these puppets have masters. Get them in the Hague and let them spill their guts I say... then when that little illusion is shattered we can focus on taking down the Hague and so on and so forth.
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