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TOPIC: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador.

Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 21 Sep 2012 22:18 #101

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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 21 Sep 2012 22:26 #102

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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 22 Sep 2012 16:11 #103

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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 22 Sep 2012 17:36 #104

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A Pakistan minister has just apparently offered a reward of $100,000 for the death of the anti-islam film maker! :conf:

Way to rock the fucking boat even more.
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Last Edit: 22 Sep 2012 17:43 by psketti.
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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 22 Sep 2012 17:42 #105

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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 22 Sep 2012 18:46 #106

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do you think they are hand in ass puppets, or marionettes
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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 22 Sep 2012 19:25 #107

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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 22 Sep 2012 19:27 #108

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Like everyone else, many Muslims find the 13 minute Islamophobic video "Innocence of Muslims" trashy and offensive. Protests have spread quickly, tapping into understandable and lasting grievances about neo-colonialist US and western foreign policy in the Middle East, as well as religious sensitivities about depictions of the Prophet Muhammad. But the news coverage often obscures some important points:

1. Early estimates put participation in anti-film protests at between 0.001 and 0.007% of the world's 1.5 billion Muslims – a tiny fraction of those who marched for democracy in the Arab spring.

2. The vast majority of protesters have been peaceful. The breaches of foreign embassies were almost all organised or fuelled by elements of the Salafist movement, a radical Islamist group that is most concerned with undermining more popular moderate Islamist groups.

3. Top Libyan and US officials are divided over whether the killing of the US ambassador to Libya was likely pre-planned to coincide with 9/11, and therefore not connected to the film.

4. Apart from attacks by radical militant groups in Libya and Afghanistan, a survey of news reports on 20 September suggested that actual protesters had killed a total of zero people. The deaths cited by media were largely protesters killed by police.

5. Pretty much every major leader, Muslim and western, has condemned the film, and pretty much every leader, Muslim and western, has condemned any violence that might be committed in response.

6. The pope visited Lebanon at the height of the tension, and Hezbollah leaders attended his sermon, refrained from protesting the film until he left, and called for religious tolerance. Yes, this happened.

7. After the attack in Benghazi, ordinary people turned out on the streets in Benghazi and Tripoli with signs, many of them in English, apologising and saying the violence did not represent them or their religion.

Add to that the number of really big news stories that were buried last week to make room for front page, angry Muslim "Clash" coverage. In Russia tens of thousands of protesters marched through Moscow to oppose Russian President Vladimir Putin. Hundreds of thousands of Portuguese and Spaniards turned out for anti-austerity protests; and more than a million Catalans marched for independence.
Muslim rage or Salafist strategy?

Meet Sheikh Khaled Abdullah, the Salafist TV host who peddled the film (Ted Nieter)
The "Innocence of Muslims" was picked up and peddled with subtitles by far-right Salafists – radical followers of an Islamic movement long supported by Saudi Arabia. The film was a cheaply made, YouTube failure until an Egyptian Salafist TV host, Sheikh Khaled Abdullah (right) began promoting it to viewers on 8 September.

Most insulted Muslims ignored the film or protested peacefully, but the Salafists, with their signature black flags, were leading instigators of the more aggressive protests that breached embassies. Leaders of the Egyptian Salafist party attended the Cairo protest that broke into the US embassy.

Like the far-right in the US or Europe, the Salafist strategy is to drag public opinion rightwards by seizing on opportunities to fan radical anger and demonise ideological opponents. This approach resembles that of anti-Muslim US pastor Terry Jones (who first promoted the film in the west) and other western extremists. In both societies, however, the moderates far (far!) outnumber the extremists. A leading figure in Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood (the more powerful and popular political opponent of Egypt’s Salafists) wrote to the New York Times saying: "We do not hold the American government or its citizens responsible for acts of the few that abuse the laws protecting freedom of expression".
Good reporting

A lonely band of journalists and scholars have approached the protests with an intent to truly understand the forces behind them. Among them, Hisham Matar, who powerfully describes the sadness in Benghazi after J Christopher Stevens' killing, and Barnaby Phillips, who explores how Islamic conservatives manipulated the film to their advantage. Anthropologist Sarah Kendzior cautions against treating the Muslim world as a homogenous unit. And Professor Stanley Fish tackles a tough question: why many Muslims are so sensitive to unflattering depictions of Islam.
en.avaaz.org/783/muslim-rage-protests-ne...paign=stop-the-clash
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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 22 Sep 2012 19:56 #109

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Please also remember that war is waged through sanctions also not just with bombs and guns. Many are killed by bombs but many more are killed following the war. After desert storm the sanctions continued. If you live in a country torn apart by war and sanctions then why wouldn't you take up arms against the west.

The united states has Problems at home so why would they be trying to fix problems abroad. It is kind of like the wife beater next door giving you marriage counsel.
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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 24 Sep 2012 16:10 #110

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www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/sep/23/li...h-to-get-un-hearing/

September 23, 2012 in Nation/World

Limits on speech to get U.N. hearing
Speakers may revive debate on blasphemy

Hannah Allam McClatchy-Tribune

UNITED NATIONS – The divide in world opinion over what constitutes free speech will be on display again this week at the United Nations, where arguments over a proposed blasphemy law were an annual feature for the past decade. This time it’s the global reaction to a YouTube video that disparages Islam’s Prophet Muhammad that’s sure to roil the meeting of the U.N. General Assembly.

Muslim leaders have vowed to discuss the offensive video from their U.N. platforms, sowing concern among free-speech activists of a fresh push toward an international law that would criminalize blasphemy. Human rights groups and Western democracies resisted such a law for years and thought they had finally quashed the matter after convincing enough nations that repressive regimes use blasphemy laws to imprison or execute dissidents.

“I expect that we’ll regress to where we were a couple of years ago,” said Courtney C. Radsch, program manager for the Global Freedom of Expression Campaign at Freedom House, a Washington-based nonprofit group that promotes democratic values.

“Human rights are not about protecting religions; human rights are to protect humans,” Radsch said. “Who is going to be the decision-maker on deciding what blasphemy is?”

At one end of the spectrum is France, where a magazine last week published cartoons of Muhammad as a naked, cowering man to underscore a point that even the most offensive expression should be protected.

At the other end of the spectrum is U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, who surprised – and disappointed – many free-speech activists by suggesting limitations to freedom of speech when it’s “used to provoke or humiliate.”

“We are living through a period of unease. We are also seeing incidents of intolerance and hatred that are then exploited by others,” Ban told the 193-member General Assembly at the gathering’s opening last week. “Voices of moderation and calm need to make themselves heard at this time. We all need to speak up in favor of mutual respect and understanding of the values and beliefs of others.”

The head of the Arab League, Nabil Elaraby, decried the depictions of Muhammad but said that only “peaceful means” should be used to protest them, according to news reports.

Elaraby’s native Egypt, however, took legal action, with the Islamist-led government filing a lawsuit against the Egyptian-American filmmakers of “Innocence of Muslims.” Authorities also detained without charge an Egyptian atheist accused of posting the video online.

The ultraconservative Islamists of the Nour Party went further, filing a request with the public prosecutor to revoke the citizenship for any Egyptian who insults Muhammad.

Protests over the crudely made “Innocence of Muslims” video have taken place in dozens of countries over the past week.

For years, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, a 57-member bloc of countries that seeks to protect Muslim interests around the world, has proposed a resolution criminalizing the defamation of religion.

By last year, free-speech proponents had persuaded so many countries to ditch the cause that no new defamation-of-religion resolution was proposed. Instead, Pakistan won U.S. support for an alternative resolution on “combating intolerance”; the only speech it seeks to ban is “incitement to imminent violence.”

Now, Turkey heads the OIC and, while the group hasn’t said whether it will resurrect its old initiative to criminalize defamation of religion, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said he’d bring up the topic during his allotted speaking time in New York this week.

Erdogan had no qualms laying out to journalists his view that free speech comes with boundaries. “Freedom of thought and belief ends where the freedom of thought and belief of others starts,” he said.

The issue is much broader than the Muslim world. Greece has used its blasphemy laws to bar certain displays of art, according to Freedom House, while Ireland adopted a blasphemy law in 2008. Last month in Russia, three members of the feminist punk collective Pussy Riot were found guilty of “hooliganism motivated by religious hatred.”

“There are Muslim, there are Christians, there are nondenominational countries that have blasphemy laws,” said Radsch of Freedom House. “It’s not about the religion of the country – it’s about the broader institutions of democracy and rule of law.”

Even in the United States, free speech is undergoing a test through lawsuits over an ad that a notoriously Islamophobic group seeks to place in the Washington and New York City subway systems. The ad reads: “In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. Support Israel. Defeat Jihad.”

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs New York’s subway and train systems, initially rejected the ads because they violated a prohibition on “demeaning” language. A federal judge ruled that those standards are unconstitutional; the ads should be up soon.

Meanwhile, the transit authority in Washington has resisted putting up the ads out of “a concern for public safety, given current world events,” according to news reports.

A judge has given the agency two weeks to revisit its decision.


If the Christian churches of the west maintain their god is a jealous god, could it be argued that tolerating the construction of mosques in our lands is in itself blasphemous?
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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 24 Sep 2012 16:52 #111

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Gilly wrote:
If the Christian churches of the west maintain their god is a jealous god, could it be argued that tolerating the construction of mosques in our lands is in itself blasphemous?

Only fundies who commit the blasphemy of speaking on behalf of God.

Major church leaders from almost all denominations seek peace and harmony with people of other faiths and none. Unfortunately Fred Phelps or kiddy fiddlers get all the press. :(

As for blasphemy laws: we already have them and have never not had them.
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Last Edit: 24 Sep 2012 16:59 by mikey mikey.
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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 05 Oct 2012 10:12 #112

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Did the White House order a cover-up over the murder of Libya's US Ambassador?

By Con Coughlin Last updated: October 2nd, 2012

Immediately after the murder of Chris Stevens, America's Ambassador to Libya, I suggested that the assault on the US consulate in Benghazi on September 11 could have profound consequences for President Barack Obama, particulary if he failed to take appropriate action against the murderers – the most likely candidates being members of al-Qaeda's new terror franchise in Mali.
But with the US presidential contest entering its critical final phase, the Obama administration deftly avoided getting into any controversy over the murder of Mr Stevens and three other members of the consulate staff by leading everyone to believe the murders were not part of an al-Qaeda plot, but the result of an outbreak of violence caused by a blaphemous film clip. This was certainly the line advanced by Dr Susan Rice, the American Ambassador to the United Nations, and a close confidante of Mr Obama.

Dr Rice, in common with other senior officials in the Obama administration, insisted that the assault on the US consulate had been "spontaneous", rather than a carefully planned attack by terrorists. By making this claim, the White House effectively silenced any criticism that the Obama administration was culpable for not taking more effective measures to protect the consulate.

But now it appears that Rice's version of events – endorsed by the White House – was wrong. Within 24 hours of the attack taking place, Washington was informed by a variety of intelligence sources that the attack had indeed been pre-planned and was undoubtedly the work of al-Qaeda which, apart from attacking the consulate, had also attacked the CIA's safe house in Benghazi.
As a result, rather than absolving itself of any blame for this tragic incident, the White House – and Mr Obama – now find themselves at the centre of a mounting storm over what precisely they knew about the attack on the consulate, and when.

Now that Hillary Clinton, the US Secretary of State, has confirmed there was an explicit link between al-Qaeda and the attack, questions are being asked about the role Dr Rice played in trying to play down the significance of the attack. The Republicans have already called for her to resign from her post for misleading the American people.

But the real smoking gun is whether the Obama administration was warned in advance that al-Qaeda was planning an attack. A number of Israeli newspapers have suggested that Washington was warned as early as September 4 – a week earlier – that the environment in Benghazi was becoming increasingly hostile and anti-American, while in London the Foreign Office took the decision to withdraw all its consular staff from Benghazi two months before the murders. This decision was based on an intelligence assessment made by MI6 that al-Qaeda was openly operating in the area following a failed assassination attempt on Sir Dominic Asquith, Britain's ambassador to Libya, in June.

It is well known that British intelligence works closely with its counterpart in America, and if MI6 knew al-Qaeda was operating in the Benghazi region, then it is highly likely that the CIA did too.

Suddenly the Administration's "it's nothing to do with us, guv," defence is starting to look rather thin, with potentially disastrous consequences for Mr Obama's re-election prospects.


blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/concoughlin/1...ibyas-us-ambassador/

This ties in with other reports floating about recently, stating Stevens' personal diary was located in the wreckage. In it were notes of his heightened concern for the safety of himself & his staff, and his having sought help in advance of the attack.

So if the news is supposed to scupper Obama's re-election chances, what were his motives for ignoring those pleas in the first place?
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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 05 Oct 2012 11:35 #113

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dont worry, the fbi is on the case. they'll catch em lol
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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 10 Oct 2012 15:31 #114

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Gilly wrote:
Did the White House order a cover-up over the murder of Libya's US Ambassador?

By Con Coughlin Last updated: October 2nd, 2012

Immediately after the murder of Chris Stevens, America's Ambassador to Libya, I suggested that the assault on the US consulate in Benghazi on September 11 could have profound consequences for President Barack Obama, particulary if he failed to take appropriate action against the murderers – the most likely candidates being members of al-Qaeda's new terror franchise in Mali.
But with the US presidential contest entering its critical final phase, the Obama administration deftly avoided getting into any controversy over the murder of Mr Stevens and three other members of the consulate staff by leading everyone to believe the murders were not part of an al-Qaeda plot, but the result of an outbreak of violence caused by a blaphemous film clip. This was certainly the line advanced by Dr Susan Rice, the American Ambassador to the United Nations, and a close confidante of Mr Obama.

Dr Rice, in common with other senior officials in the Obama administration, insisted that the assault on the US consulate had been "spontaneous", rather than a carefully planned attack by terrorists. By making this claim, the White House effectively silenced any criticism that the Obama administration was culpable for not taking more effective measures to protect the consulate.

But now it appears that Rice's version of events – endorsed by the White House – was wrong. Within 24 hours of the attack taking place, Washington was informed by a variety of intelligence sources that the attack had indeed been pre-planned and was undoubtedly the work of al-Qaeda which, apart from attacking the consulate, had also attacked the CIA's safe house in Benghazi.
As a result, rather than absolving itself of any blame for this tragic incident, the White House – and Mr Obama – now find themselves at the centre of a mounting storm over what precisely they knew about the attack on the consulate, and when.

Now that Hillary Clinton, the US Secretary of State, has confirmed there was an explicit link between al-Qaeda and the attack, questions are being asked about the role Dr Rice played in trying to play down the significance of the attack. The Republicans have already called for her to resign from her post for misleading the American people.

But the real smoking gun is whether the Obama administration was warned in advance that al-Qaeda was planning an attack. A number of Israeli newspapers have suggested that Washington was warned as early as September 4 – a week earlier – that the environment in Benghazi was becoming increasingly hostile and anti-American, while in London the Foreign Office took the decision to withdraw all its consular staff from Benghazi two months before the murders. This decision was based on an intelligence assessment made by MI6 that al-Qaeda was openly operating in the area following a failed assassination attempt on Sir Dominic Asquith, Britain's ambassador to Libya, in June.

It is well known that British intelligence works closely with its counterpart in America, and if MI6 knew al-Qaeda was operating in the Benghazi region, then it is highly likely that the CIA did too.

Suddenly the Administration's "it's nothing to do with us, guv," defence is starting to look rather thin, with potentially disastrous consequences for Mr Obama's re-election prospects.


blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/concoughlin/1...ibyas-us-ambassador/

This ties in with other reports floating about recently, stating Stevens' personal diary was located in the wreckage. In it were notes of his heightened concern for the safety of himself & his staff, and his having sought help in advance of the attack.

So if the news is supposed to scupper Obama's re-election chances, what were his motives for ignoring those pleas in the first place?


www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/09/libya-...tests_n_1953057.html

Some new info on this.
This is the huffington post though so... lol :)
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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 15 Oct 2012 08:09 #115

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Obama Throws Hillary Under The Bus – Clintons Furious :cheer:
October 14, 2012

Source: Freedom Outpost

t appears that Barack Obama is ready to let Secretary of State Clinton take the fall for the failure in security in Benghazi. During the vice-presidential debate on Thursday it became clear that is what the agenda was.

There is no doubt that is part of her responsibility in that role. According to the State Department’s website:

The Secretary of State, and by extension, the Chief of Mission (COM), are responsible for developing and implementing security policies and programs that provide for the protection of all U.S. Government personnel (including accompanying dependents) on official duty abroad. This mission is executed through the Bureau of Diplomatic Security (DS). Personal and facility protection are the most critical elements of the DS mission abroad as they directly impact upon the Department’s ability to carry out its foreign policy. With terrorist organizations and coalitions operating across international borders, the threat of terrorism against U.S. interests remains great. Therefore, any U.S. mission overseas can be a target even if identified as being in a low-threat environment.

As a result, DS is more dedicated than ever to its mission of providing a secure living and working environment for our Foreign Service colleagues as they implement foreign policy and promote U.S. interests around the world. Nearly 800 DS special agents serve in regional security offices at over 250 posts worldwide. The DS special agents, also called regional security officers (RSOs) when serving abroad, manage security programs and also provide the first line of defense for our personnel, their families, U.S. diplomatic missions, and national security information. RSOs serve as the primary advisor to the COM on all security matters by developing and implementing security programs that shield U.S. missions and residences overseas from physical and technical attack.

It seems that there is a legitimate reason for the Obama administration to throw Clinton under the bus on this one and it seems that everyone is on board with it, including Vice President Joe Biden. Foreign Policy reports,

Vice President Joseph Biden speaks only for himself and President Barack Obama, and neither man was aware that U.S. officials in Libya had asked the State Department for more security before the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi, a top White House official told The Cable.

Biden has come under fire for saying at Thursday night’s debate, “We weren’t told they wanted more security. We did not know they wanted more security there.”

The Cable asked Deputy National Security Advisor for Communications Ben Rhodes whether Biden was speaking for the entire Obama administration, including the State Department, which acknowledged receiving multiple requests for more Libya security in the months before the attacks. Rhodes said that Biden speaks only for himself and the president and neither of them knew about the requests at the time.

The State Department security officials who testified before House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa’s panel Wednesday never said they had made their requests to the president, Rhodes pointed out. That would be natural because the State Department is responsible for diplomatic security, not the White House, he said. Rhodes also pointed out that the officials were requesting more security in Tripoli, not Benghazi.

But, if you think that Hillary Clinton is going down without a fight, you would be sorely mistaken. Already former President Bill Clinton has stepped in to give his wife some aid in the matter.

Ed Klein at the Daily Caller writes,

My sources tell me that Clinton is working on a strategy that will allow Hillary to avoid having Benghazi become a stain on her political fortunes should she decide to run for president in 2016.

Bill Clinton has even gone so far as to seek legal advice about Hillary’s liability in terms of cables and memos that might be subpoenaed by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which this week launched an investigation into the deaths of Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans. The committee will also examine the apparent Obama administration cover-up that followed the Benghazi attack.

Finally, I’m told that Bill is playing with various doomsday scenarios, up to and including the idea that Hillary should consider resigning over the issue if the Obama team tries to use her as a scapegoat. That seems unlikely to happen. But if relations between Obama’s White House and Hillary’s State Department rupture publicly over the growing Benghazi scandal, that could damage the Democratic ticket and dim Obama’s chances for re-election.

Barack Obama has taken some initiative to protect his Attorney General Eric Holder, though it is possibly because of his own involvement in Operation Fast and Furious. It’s quite possible that Clinton is the one that not only knew of the need for extra security for the Libyan ambassador, but that she made the decision to not provide it.
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Re: Muhammad The Movie causes murder of U.S. ambassador. 22 Oct 2012 01:32 #116

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