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TOPIC: The Republic (Plato)

The Republic (Plato) 08 Apr 2013 23:09 #21

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Plato has Socrates describe a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows. According to Plato's Socrates, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to viewing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall do not make up reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners...

faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/cave.htm
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
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The Republic (Plato) 08 Apr 2013 23:23 #22

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Mike wrote:
LightGiver wrote:
Mike wrote:
So are you consciously obscure or mind fucked by the conspiracy genre LG?

Not at all,my mind is fine.People tend to overcomplicate matters and the minority lead the majority astray,usually for selfish purposes...everything is just a label at the end of the day...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind
So you're consciously obscure then?
Ah fair play to ya anyway ignore me keep posting these youtubes they're very entertaining :hmm:

You do know who comes across as most 'consciously obscure ' reading the last few posts back?

He posts info. Take it or leave it.

If he posts arguements, have an arguement.
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The Republic (Plato) 08 Apr 2013 23:27 #23

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Plato discussed the types of bees in relation to classes of people.The majority were workers who brought home the nectar. The drone priests sorted it into grades of honey. The best is Royal Jelly for themselves and the "Queen" while the workers are given denaturalised refuse...

In conversation with Socrates, Meno asks whether virtue can be taught. Socrates suggests that the two of them are to determine whether virtue can be taught, they must first define clearly what virtue is.

Meno first suggests that different kinds of virtue exist for different kinds of people. Socrates replies that Meno’s definition is like a swarm of bees: each kind of virtue, like each bee, is different, but Socrates is interested in that quality they all share. Meno next suggests that virtue is being able to rule over people, but Socrates dismisses this suggestion on two grounds: first, it is not virtuous for slaves or children to rule over people, and second, ruling is virtuous only if it is done justly. This response prompts Meno to define virtue as justice. But he then concedes to Socrates that justice is a form of virtue but not virtue itself...


cuttingthroughthematrix.com/page5alanwatt.html
www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/plato/section2.rhtml
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 00:23 #24

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Plato believed that you couldn’t transfer knowledge from teacher to student but you should point a student towards experience so they can learn for themselves. In Alice in Wonderland, Wonderland resembles what Plato would call the real world because what Alice is learning through the experience in Wonderland makes her more independent and assertive about the choices that she makes than how she was at the beginning of the story. Although Wonderland looks like a magical world with talking animals and mass confusion it relates more to the real world than the life of a young girl living in Victorian England...

If you were a child from a poor family at the beginning of the Victorian times, you worked and worked and worked
Children worked very long hours with little breaks and no fresh air.
They often worked in very dangerous conditions resulting in injuries or even death.
Very young children were expected to work
There was no education for the poor, so it was very unlikely they could get better paid jobs when they were older.
Children were paid very little because they were younger.......

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rabbit_(song)
aliceinwonderlandblogcblockgrouptwo.blog...ve-and-alice-in.html
www.chiddingstone.kent.sch.uk/homework/v...children/working.htm
news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat=...IBAJ&pg=6471,2088890
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 09 Apr 2013 01:06 by LightGiver.
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 00:40 #25

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The Socratic method (also known as method of elenchus, elenctic method, Socratic irony, or Socratic debate), named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates, is a form of inquiry and debate between individuals with opposing viewpoints based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas. It is a dialectical method, often involving an oppositional discussion in which the defence of one point of view is pitted against the defence of another; one participant may lead another to contradict himself in some way, thus strengthening the inquirer's own point...



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method
www.thlib.org/#!essay=/dreyfus/drepung/monasticed/s/b4
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 09 Apr 2013 00:44 by LightGiver.
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 15:37 #26

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Excellent thread mate!
A love letter to the NSA agent who is monitoring my online activity. :D


www.happyplace.com/24470/a-love-letter-t...g-my-online-activity
Last Edit: 09 Apr 2013 15:38 by chandrakavi.
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 15:56 #27

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The Obscurantist said:
Although Wonderland looks like a magical world with talking animals and mass confusion it relates more to the real world than the life of a young girl living in Victorian England...
really? A fictional story from the imagination of Lewis Carrol about a pre-pubescent girl he hung out with, "relates more to the real world" than historical facts about the real world?
hmm
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 18:55 #28

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Mike wrote:
The Obscurantist said:
Although Wonderland looks like a magical world with talking animals and mass confusion it relates more to the real world than the life of a young girl living in Victorian England...
really? A fictional story from the imagination of Lewis Carrol about a pre-pubescent girl he hung out with, "relates more to the real world" than historical facts about the real world?
hmm

I thought that one would pop up,do you really think lewis carrol (Charles Lutwidge Dodgson) wrote that book ..Hmm...Also have you heard of the Lewis carrol and jack the ripper connection in victorian england...I notice you have a Marx Signature as well MIKE...sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/family-dynasties...html?start=20#115475
Hess and Marx hoped to exploit the jealousy of the stupid proletariat to enforce a hell on earth where fear, suffering, terror and treason ruled supreme - Communism...www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1843/critique-hpr/intro.htm

He never married, though there is evidence of at least one traumatic sexual relationship during the 1860s, and in later years, he enjoyed increasingly open and intimate friendships with numbers of women, married and single. He died, suddenly of violent pneumonia, on January 14 1898..After his death, his invented name 'Lewis Carroll' quickly became the focus of a potent mythology.Wallace published his theory in 1996, in his book 'Jack the Ripper, Light-Hearted Friend'. It was, in brief that Dodgson and his Oxford colleague Thomas Vere Bayne, were both responsible for the Whitechapel murders. He based his belief on anagrams he constructed out of Dodgson's work, which he claimed were hidden confessions of the author's life of crime in Whitechapel in the autumn of 1888. ..
Just a Week to Go - Open House at Freemasons' Hall..Post by M IKE Martin » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:43 pm

Once again, as part of the Open House London Weekend, Freemasons' Hall in Great Queen Street WC2 will be throwing open its doors to visitors. This particular open event allows much greater "sneeking" ability than the normal tours of the building with a route laid out for visitors to follow.


In addition to the Grand Temple, there are a further 23 masonic temples, or meeting rooms, within the building. All are highly ornate in their various art deco styles, and no two are identical...
Dodgson at the age of 23, his clear brilliance as a mathematician won him the Christ Church Mathematical Lectureship, which he continued to hold for the next 26 years...The other of Wallace's brace of theories about Dodgson is that this most entirely 'philogynic' of men, who spent his life collecting images of naked girls and women, was actually a closet homosexual...
Hey Mike why did you not bring up the part about child labour in Victorian England...Just picking what suits... :roll: Hey the law was pretty strict back then with regards towards homosexuality..check out Oscar Wilde...
1885 The British Parliament enacted section 11 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885, known as the Labouchere Amendment which prohibited gross indecency between males. It thus became possible to prosecute homosexuals for engaging is sexual acts where buggery or attempted buggery could not be proven..

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality
www.casebook.org/suspects/carroll.html
www.lodgeroomuk.com/forumphpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9553
nineteenthcenturyninny.wordpress.com/201...erlock-holmes-world/
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 09 Apr 2013 19:35 by LightGiver.
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 21:58 #29

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Mike wrote:
The Obscurantist said:

:gleek:
the anorak hides the fact that sean is composed of 95% vaginas
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 22:07 #30

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In 1973 the incomprehensible pronouncements from a ginger cat named Charley warned children against strangers, matches, water safety and other everyday perils...www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/films/1964to...lmpage_strangers.htm


Karl Marx visited the Isle of Wight on numerous occasions while he was writing the Communist Manifesto...
In the 1966 novel Colossus, the entire island is selected for the development of a new base by the supercomputer, Colossus...


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charley_Says
sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/ConspiracyTruth-...-maxwell.html#115538.."Meet Mike, he swims like a fish!..
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maxwell
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 09 Apr 2013 23:30 by LightGiver.
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 23:26 #31

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Hey Mike why did you not bring up the part about child labour in Victorian England...Just picking what suits..
A question? Try one of these:?

Basically it was the most obvious subversion of Logic within your post, that's why.
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 23:28 #32

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Mike wrote:
Hey Mike why did you not bring up the part about child labour in Victorian England...Just picking what suits..
A question? Try one of these:?

Basically it was the most obvious subversion of Logic within your post, that's why.

Really.

If you had read the post properly mike you would have noticed that Ryder Jacobsen wrote/Said it ...or maybe he/she is a ghost writer..aliceinwonderlandblogcblockgrouptwo.blog...ve-and-alice-in.html... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryde
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 09 Apr 2013 23:32 by LightGiver.
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 23:31 #33

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I have a copy of the book here with me, guess who's name is on it :D

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Liddell

So not only are you an obscurantist, you're a historical revisionist, interesting, does the obscurantism serve as the shroud behind which your subversions of logic and accepted historic reality are hidden?
Last Edit: 09 Apr 2013 23:31 by Mike.
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 23:33 #34

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and.. :roll:

A ghostwriter is a writer who writes books, articles, stories, reports, or other texts that are officially credited to another person.

Ghostwriting (or simply "ghosting") also occurs in other creative fields. Composers have long hired ghostwriters to help them to write musical pieces and songs; Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart is an example of a well-known composer who was paid to ghostwrite music for wealthy patrons.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostwriter
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 09 Apr 2013 23:35 by LightGiver.
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 23:35 #35

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Are you honestly arrogant enough to assume I've never heard of ghostwriters?
haha good link this one:
www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1843/critique-hpr/intro.htm
I recommend you try reading it :D
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 23:36 #36

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Mike wrote:
Are you honestly arrogant enough to assume I've never heard of ghostwriters?
haha good link this one:
www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1843/critique-hpr/intro.htm
I recommend you try reading it :D

Thanks...


:usa:
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 09 Apr 2013 23:39 by LightGiver.
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 23:41 #37

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There is nothing more repugnant than self imposed ignorance in my view, it's even worse than obscurantist blabbering.

So how do you deal with being wrong>?
It was on one such expedition, on 4 July 1862, that Dodgson invented the outline of the story that eventually became his first and largest commercial success. Having told the story and been begged by Alice Liddell to write it down, Dodgson eventually (after much delay) presented her with a handwritten, illustrated manuscript entitled Alice's Adventures Under Ground in November 1864.[36]

Before this, the family of friend and mentor George MacDonald read Dodgson's incomplete manuscript, and the enthusiasm of the MacDonald children encouraged Dodgson to seek publication. In 1863, he had taken the unfinished manuscript to Macmillan the publisher, who liked it immediately. After the possible alternative titles Alice Among the Fairies and Alice's Golden Hour were rejected, the work was finally published as Alice's Adventures in Wonderland in 1865 under the Lewis Carroll pen-name, which Dodgson had first used some nine years earlier.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Carroll#Alice

Historical facts you see, confirmed by many parties and the author's literary record, not just some blog on the internetz.

But maybe you think the Wizard of Oz or a hollywood fiction called "from hell" "relates more to real life" than the actual historical record?
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 23:43 #38

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Mike wrote:
There is nothing more repugnant than self imposed ignorance in my view, it's even worse than obscurantist blabbering.

Really.
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 09 Apr 2013 23:47 by LightGiver.
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 23:45 #39

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Just me perspective, you see I don't have to hide what I think behind elaborate veils of misinformation :)
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The Republic (Plato) 09 Apr 2013 23:48 #40

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Mike wrote:
Just me perspective, you see I don't have to hide what I think behind elaborate veils of misinformation :)

Really...The Hidden Math Behind Alice in Wonderland...

First, we have to remind ourselves of what was going on in mathematics in the latter half of the nineteenth century, when Dodgson so called wrote his story. It was a turbulent period for mathematicians, with the subject rapidly becoming more abstract. The discoveries of non-Euclidean geometries, the development of abstract (symbolic) algebra that was not tied to arithmetic or geometry, and the growing acceptance - or at least use - of "imaginary numbers" were just some of the developments that shook the discipline to its core. By all accounts, Dodgson held a very traditionalist view of mathematics, rooted in the axiomatic approach of Euclid's Elements. (He was not a research mathematician, rather he tutored the subject.) Bayley describes him as a "stubbornly conservative mathematician," who was dismayed by what he saw as the declining standards of rigor. The new material Dodgson added to the Alice story for publication, she says, was a wicked satire on those new developments. ...

www.maa.org/devlin/devlin_03_10.html
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 09 Apr 2013 23:49 by LightGiver.
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