knobmeup wrote: I'm not per se saying such criticisms are unreasonable. But I am using a Dell laptop to type this, fully aware of the conditions in which Dell products are manufactured:

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/865...s-claims-report.html

Even if they don't use what are officially categorised as 'sweatshops' (which they do), they will definitely exploit labour and pay their workers an utterly desultory wage.

Technically given my views on the subject, I shouldn't use Dell products. But you would find it extremely hard to buy a computer, even if you attempted to assemble it yourself from its constituent parts, that wasn't produced in sweatshops. So I could oppose morally to using a computer. That's the end of my work, which means I'd have to find a job. Which would mean I'd have to find one that wasn't morally reprehensible, where I wasn't blindly serving corporate or state interests, otherwise it would be pointless. Which would be quite difficult.

That's before you go into the fact that your choice with regard to phoneline is a company that hacked dead people's phones, a company that is involved in profiting from the privatisation of the NHS, and a company that has been involved in some pernicious conduct with regard to Syria. That's your choice, or no phone line. So for me, I choose to take the lesser of two evils, but for me I don't see a 'clean' choice open to me.

Again, I'm not saying some criticism isn't legitimate, just that as I've said previously there isn't any 'clean' money out there to chase after, and we're all to a greater or lesser extent dependent now on this fascist economic system, whether we like it or not. And I do everything I can to minimise this, and I'm quite sure you do more than me, but ultimately it is impossible not to be sucked into it on some level unless there is a mass grass roots re-organisation of the way society operates. No-one can live 'off the grid', I have encountered people who think that they can, but it's impossible. Similarly, you would have a very hard job producing a television programme, let alone entire channel, without utilising products produced in sweatshops, or at the very least by heavily exploited labour.

Other budgeting issues are a different kettle of fish, but I can't be too critical of Icke for using Apple products given that without using either them or some similar product there will be no TV channel whatsoever.

It just gives his opponents easy opportunities for constant cheap shots which david doesn't have answers for given the low level of vibration of his opponents.

Instead, there is an opportunity (necessity really) of employing the weapons used against us for our own advantage.

solar_deity wrote:
I'm more interested in why there are a load of nazis on his forum & why the admin staff tend to curry favour with them.... and what his role in that is.

In my view, this is bordering on impossible because not enough people want and / or understand the need for change. And many of those that do have no self-determinism. And when I say none, I mean it, I don't mean they're in a difficult situation in where their parameters are limited, I mean they have zero or bordering on zero say in what happens in their lives.

I wish Icke would just fuck right off period, If he wants too set up a tv station pay for it yourself, don't ask for donations.you want to make a lick of difference in this fucked up capitalist greed driven stinker we call a society , walk the walk not fucking talk it oh thats right i've written xx amount of books 70,000 words with lots of colourful pictures and diagrams of irrelevant shit

www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/technology/article3828716.ece

I disagree as there is enormous dissatisfaction with the current state of affairs. The vast majority understand on a strictly intuitive level that things are very wrong. This has been the case for decades now, and awareness of the systematic nature of our oppression is as widespread as ever.

Even those who dismiss conspiracy talk very well understand at least some of the premises, and discuss them from time to time, if only ultimately to dismiss them.

I have spoken with several hundreds of people personally myself over the years about these topics and people do understand the seriousness of the problems esp. in this era.

My point is, don't count yourself out. Even if you wanted to think of yourself as powerless, this can never be the case.

That's great, I wish everyone was like you. I'm not an optimist by nature. Luckily I still exert some influence over my own existence, but the parameters under which this occurs are definitely narrowing. I would like to think otherwise, but I would still maintain that in the 'developed' world most people don't want change, and in the 'developing' world, most people are in no position to do anything other than survive. That's just my experience.

The SF infiltration is huge. There is a strange, uneasy alliance between the jew-haters and conspiracy researchers who decry the evil influence of rochschild zionists who hide behind the flag of israel and promote their globalist agenda under the guise of defending jews from 'defamation.'

However, it is one thing to criticize david for his lack of oversight over his own forum and another thing to claim that he actively promotes a racist agenda.

The moderation on DIF is likely corrupt (meaning posters who donate a lot and those who threaten legal action are likely receiving a lot more leeway than the average member) but how good could the moderation really be on a forum like that? It's simply impossible for them to please everyone, or even a significant minority of posters. They walk a fine line between allowing free speech and shutting down hate based agenda which is clothed in relatively civil talk backed by carefully sourced (ie based) 'evidence.' In other words, someone, nay, large numbers are bound to be offended: either those who are censored ('you're cracking down on free speech!'), or those who are offended ('you're allowing racist haters and bigots to promote evil!').

To propose that david is himself backing a pro-nazi agenda requires multiple speculative leaps backed by zero evidence. I understand a lot of people have been banned from the forum, have beef/s with the dif moderators, and are likely stressed out about what's going on in the world on top of all of that, but that still doesn't excuse demonizing david.

If you want better fodder for claims of a race baiter and provocateur, alex jones is a much safer bet.

Yes, and this doesn't make david or any of us hypocriites.

Instead, there is an opportunity (necessity really) of employing the weapons used against us for our own advantage.

What holds true with technology also holds true with money. As david has pointed out, the dollar is no longer such--it is simply legal tender. The use of money per se is not wrong; in fact, it is an enormous advantage and convenience when compared to bartering.

What IS wrong is the conspiratorial devaluation and eventual non-valuation of former currency by eliminating the gold standard and therefore destroying it's worth.

It is precisely these subtleties which are lost in david's analysis as he gets on his moral high horse (which is not a bad thing) as well as simplifies points to make them more digestible..

It just gives his opponents easy opportunities for constant cheap shots which david doesn't have answers for given the low level of vibration of his opponents.

knobmeup wrote: I'm not per se saying such criticisms are unreasonable. But I am using a Dell laptop to type this, fully aware of the conditions in which Dell products are manufactured:

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/865...s-claims-report.html

Even if they don't use what are officially categorised as 'sweatshops' (which they do), they will definitely exploit labour and pay their workers an utterly desultory wage.

Technically given my views on the subject, I shouldn't use Dell products. But you would find it extremely hard to buy a computer, even if you attempted to assemble it yourself from its constituent parts, that wasn't produced in sweatshops. So I could oppose morally to using a computer. That's the end of my work, which means I'd have to find a job. Which would mean I'd have to find one that wasn't morally reprehensible, where I wasn't blindly serving corporate or state interests, otherwise it would be pointless. Which would be quite difficult.

That's before you go into the fact that your choice with regard to phoneline is a company that hacked dead people's phones, a company that is involved in profiting from the privatisation of the NHS, and a company that has been involved in some pernicious conduct with regard to Syria. That's your choice, or no phone line. So for me, I choose to take the lesser of two evils, but for me I don't see a 'clean' choice open to me.

Again, I'm not saying some criticism isn't legitimate, just that as I've said previously there isn't any 'clean' money out there to chase after, and we're all to a greater or lesser extent dependent now on this fascist economic system, whether we like it or not. And I do everything I can to minimise this, and I'm quite sure you do more than me, but ultimately it is impossible not to be sucked into it on some level unless there is a mass grass roots re-organisation of the way society operates. No-one can live 'off the grid', I have encountered people who think that they can, but it's impossible. Similarly, you would have a very hard job producing a television programme, let alone entire channel, without utilising products produced in sweatshops, or at the very least by heavily exploited labour.

Other budgeting issues are a different kettle of fish, but I can't be too critical of Icke for using Apple products given that without using either them or some similar product there will be no TV channel whatsoever.

Just so that we're clear, I didn't claim that Icke promotes a racist or nazi agenda. It is clear though that the admin staff have shown favour to racists & nazis over people who dispute their bullshit..... and Seany is the overlord of the other admin & seemingly on very good terms with old Ickey.... so what's all that about?

This doesn't/hasn't just occurred with premium posters, in fact we've had previous premium posters on here moaning about how they've been treated there as well. The forum guidelines are clear & explicit on their stance over racism & religious intolerance, yet aren't adhered to in the slightest. Whether that's closing down 'free speech' or not is therefore irrelevant, as it breaks the guidelines set out which people agree to when they sign up. To say it's making leaps of logic backed by zero evidence simply isn't true. Take a read through the 'Rumours about the David Icke Forum' thread... if you've got a spare few days!
This isn't about us here being bitter about getting banned or whatever, I think most of us are much happier here now, but it's about something quite nefarious & suspect occurring within the whole structure of the forum, of which I don't believe for one second that Icke doesn't hold any sway over.

solar_deity wrote: On the contrary, yes it does. It doesn't make the "sheeple" (lovely phrase DI, so much respect for folk ) hypocrites but those of us who know and have a conscience are ofc being hypocritical. Every single time we invest in the system of slavery (Oi rep, please don't derail here ).Sorry but...derr.
Yes but we did bartering We need to move forward. Energy is exchanged at every level of 'reality' by consciousness. Conscious beings don't need to measure it .The gold standard was far from perfect. It was heavily manipulated by the very same folk that heavily manipulate the fiat system. Again...um....der.
His analysis is lost. He digests parrot style research that others have done and cherry picks the soundbites. He then spits those out year in year out constantly revealing he has no actual experience or knowledge of anything he says. Or any credibility. He devalues nearly every subject he touches. He's a fucking well privileged actor.....and I wish him well. He has helped a lot of people start their own journeys into waking the fuck up and I for one wouldn't have 'met' this lot if it hadn't been for the forum that bears his name and pays 's wages.
I urge all folk that come across mr Icke to see him for what he is, accept it, listen and then go about the business of living your own way. I strongly urge them not to contribute to his penchant for global travel and Tennent's Super though. Contribute good will toward him by all means

It also gives his higher vibrational brothers and sisters easy opportunities for constant cheap shots

wake_up_bomb wrote:

What a crock.
Icke is responsible for all that goes on under his banner unless he moves to check or correct it.
That includes supervising and guiding his staff and volunteers.
He didn't and doesn't.
Therefore it's his rap, all else is bluster, semantics and bullshit.

p.s.
I get a strong wiff of troll bait wafting up through this thread.
It's scent is quite familiar.

Your point of view may be valid. Or, maybe it's not. But calling others "trolls" is a form of trolling in and of itself. Be specific about who you are addressing and what aspect of their argument you object to and why. It seems as if you are guilty of what you decry: ie engaging in 'bluster, semantics, and bullshit' as you put it.

Your point of view may be valid. Or, maybe it's not. But calling others "trolls" is a form of trolling in and of itself. Be specific about who you are addressing and what aspect of their argument you object to and why. It seems as if you are guilty of what you decry: ie engaging in 'bluster, semantics, and bullshit' as you put it.

knobmeup wrote:
Which we can sell later for lowdsa money

I did predict these problems here:

sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/General/92260-th...-s-voice.html#130605

Not in itself an act of Nostradamean insight because there is no 'clean' money to chase after. Corporations control everything. The banking sector has almost total spectrum dominance over the world now. AJ is funding a much smaller and less ambitious operation in a much bigger country, where there is a much larger and more active counter-culture, and he still has paid subscribers and takes some advertisers that could be considered dubious.

This is why I believe the main focus of any counter-cultural movement should be on economics, and building a sustainable society that isn't reliant on such a fascistic monetary and economic system. Because even if activism managed some spectacular achievements, the rug can be pulled from under this society very, very easily if the billionaires, trillionaires and quadrillionaires aren't happy with what's going on. What the fuck is anyone going to do then? It's been done numerous times in countries and continents all over the world. It's no fucking good sitting there saying that "we're all one" or that "we've got an insider from the CIA who's exposed 9/11" when there's no food in the shops, or when everyone's bank account has been frozen, a la Cyprus, Argentina, et al. It is optimistic to think that in such circumstances people will come together, but previous experience would suggest otherwise.