LesleyPumpshaft wrote:
It does not even make economic sense to impoverish your own population this way. This is ideologically and politically driven.

It is an attempt at a change in the very structure of society: a return to something akin to fuedalism

Chomsky wrote about this in 1981 having studied their literature.
www.chomsky.info/books/priorities01.htm

LesleyPumpshaft wrote: There's no conceivable way this can happen unless all the debt in the world is written off. I don't see any other feasible recovery strategy.
I'm sort of torn on this issue. Half of me thinks that people are downright daft and can easily have the wool pulled over their eyes. And half of me thinks that a lot of people know it's a load of bollocks really, but are just hoping to cling on to what they've got and are happy to see another group scapegoated if that's what it takes. Maybe it's a bit of both.

wake_up_bomb wrote:
I am sure if we asked George Orwell to describe these two sorts of people as farmyard animals, he could and we might even recognise them

I would tend to agree with that.

wake_up_bomb wrote:
I agree about the food and shelter thing, there was talk about the amount of money rich Greek capitalists had invested offshore and estimates about the amount of wealth banked offshore would have easily covered the debts of the Greek nation if taxed, you can check out Syriza's transitional plan for the Greek economy online, I know they didn't get in, but they had an alternative to the mass austerity measures in Europe which is ultimately as you well know determined by international lenders, without dependence on international lenders you don't need to enforce austerity to receive credit to buy commodities, infrastructure, weaponry etc.

mikey mikey wrote: If you understood the structure of the Labour Party, the backing, the passion of many labour mp's, party members and voters, if you knew the weight the Unions, the LRC and the left wing contingent hold in the LP you would know that Ed Milliband wouldn't have gotten away with, nay wouldn't have even dared to attempt the cuts the Tories have made.

The fact is Labour has an influential, growing and radical left wing, something that is completely absent from either teh conservative or Liberal policy making discussion.

Guevarista wrote: I'm sure their heart was in the right place, and if there was any British political party that had any chance of getting anywhere that was willing to at least attempt to meet this issue head on, then I might break the habit of a lifetime and register to vote.

But how can this ever be paid back, or reasonably be addressed?

Just so people know, that's not from a 'conspiracy site' or some dubious source, it's from The Economist:

www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock

I actually posted this image on this site, according to my computer on 16th July.

You may note that according to The Economist, the global debt has increased by over $3 trillion in under three months. To put that into perspective, that's considerably more than the annual GDP of the UK, which is the world's seventh largest economy.

There is no conceivable budgetary scheme that will turn things around. I would love to sit here and say and believe that there is. Unless the source of this cancer is obliterated permanently, it will go on getting worse, because it's not happening by accident.

a start would be an audit of the debt..

You should be asking the question how do common everyday people get into a position to demand or conduct an audit, the answer is not by political apathy or non participation (by which i also mean merely voting).

There are people who are paid to contemplate these solutions, it is generally those with a vested interest who are most vocal in offering solutions, I'd just say if all that debt got defaulted tomorrow would the world be in a better place with a few shut down banks or would it be in a better place with years or decades of austerity measures to service the debt?
If I'm right you're suggesting the IMF and World Bank, international lending and corporations are destroyed?

Some people blame the cancer on Jews, others the immigrants, some even blame the students, handicapped and folk on the dole, some blame the illuminati or bilderbergs, I agree more with people who attribute these effects to the capitalist/bourgeois system itself, underpinned by the principle of profit.

True Labour:
!

I don't pretend to understand all the 'economy' stuff you guys are discussing
But as soon as I heard this news my mind immediately jumped to the incident that sparked the 'riots' last summer. Another kick in the guts to our already disenfranchised and 'lost' under 25's. What better way to 'start something'. We'll see no doubt.


Jane

PS....@wub....I have been watching Max Keisser for over 12 months now, and that is where I have learnt the little I know about world economy, and totally agree with you, and have for some time believed that the only way out is to go back to something akin to 'year zero' as far as the global economy is concerned.

wake_up_bomb wrote:
Absolutely yep.
Money is debt, debt is money.

The issue at the crux of it is the very structure of our economic system, its completely fucked.
We know it, 'they' know it, etc etc.
You won't find many people willing to seriously address it though, its a mental horror few want to contemplate.

angelchemuel wrote: I totally agree with you about the riots. I strongly believe in particular that many young men have no valid role in this society and culture, and this explains a lot of social phenomena. I very much enjoy watching Keiser as well, I would really recommend everyone to watch The Keiser Report, I have learnt so much from watching it.

I really like to break things down to the level of household finances. Instead of being 45 trillion in debt, let's say you were £45,000 in debt, and then three months later you were still borrowing money to service the repayments, and you were now £49,000 in debt. And you were still borrowing money each month to pay your bills, and still spending more money than you earnt. Would there be any reason for optimism if your boss told you he was giving you a 0.3% pay rise? Probably not. That's what Cameron and Osborne want us to believe, that when there's some trifling piece of positive news like unemployment decreasing by 5,000 or 'growth' (which is measured by a devaluing currency, so it's not real growth anyway) increases by 0.3% in a quarter, that it somehow means 'the economy' is back on track. It's bloody ridiculous. How mainstream journalists between them have virtually nothing useful to say about it whatsoever, I have no idea.

The Government CAFR wealth shell game
This was the first CAFR1 video that got the ball rolling for international disclosure of the CAFR (local government's - Annual Financial Report) of which was the biggest shell game played in government finance. Selectively created budget reports "for the year" were presented to the population and the CAFR never a mention being that it showed the true wealth held (developed over decades) and complete gross income (investment; Tax; and Enterprise)

Government promotes annual "Budget Reports" and at the same time virtually not a peep as to their Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR)

Do a Google search on CAFR

A complete AUDIT of international holdings and trading activity is URGENTLY needed to see the "NET" results of the market manipulations that took place since September 2001 to present...... Will this happen? Not as long as the foxes maintain regulation over the hen house!

cafr1.com/

This guys a fuckin disease:

He's a politician, left-middle-right, they are all cunts!!

jhado wrote: Was Ghandi a cunt?

It depends what side your on just exactly who is a cunt and why.

I was refering to our current members.

jhado wrote:
lol

The problem i have in criticising Cameron's speech is i can't watch or listen to him for any period of time.

He is an over privileged traitor who's dad built up funds in tax havens.

I believe he criticised jimmy car for doing such a thing a while back

quoting the guardian Cameron said "Carr's tax arrangements as "straightforward tax avoidance". He said it was unfair on the people who pay to see Carr perform that he is not paying his taxes in the same way that they do".

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/21/jimmy-carr-regret-tax-scheme

quoting the guardian again "Ian Cameron (david Cameron's father) took advantage of a new climate of investment after all capital controls were abolished in 1979, making it legal to take any sum of money out of the country without it being taxed or controlled by the UK government.

Not long after the change, brought in by Margaret Thatcher after her first month in power, Ian Cameron began setting up and directing investment funds in tax havens around the world.

Leaving his full-time role as a City stockbroker, Ian Cameron went on to act as chairman of Close International Asset management, a multimillion-pound investment fund based in Jersey; as a senior director of Blairmore Holdings Inc, registered in Panama City and currently worth £25m; and he was also a shareholder in Blairmore Asset Management based in Geneva.

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/20/...on-family-tax-havens

Anyone who pays tax and votes or agrees with anything this rubber faced twonk says needs to sit down and think a little more instead of buying into this aspirational spell he's putting on you.