Sanctum Zone

Keyword
A+ A A-
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices

'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 07:52 #1

  • wake_up_bomb
  • wake_up_bomb's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 5063
  • Thank you received: 4418
  • Karma: 56
Who would have imagined such fraud would be taking place in the highly lucrative energy market? Blow me down with a fucking feather.
FSA examines whistleblower's claims of 'Libor-like' manipulation in gas prices

Whistleblower claims £300bn wholesale gas market has been manipulated by big power companies

The City watchdog, the Financial Services Authority, is investigating claims by a whistleblower that Britain's £300bn wholesale gas market has been "regularly" manipulated by some of the big power companies, exploiting weaknesses that echo the recent Libor scandal.

Separately, the energy regulator Ofgem has been warned by a company responsible for setting so-called benchmark prices, ICIS Heren, that it had seen evidence of suspect trading on 28 September, a key date as it marks the end of the gas financial year and can have an important influence on future prices.

The whistleblower, who worked for ICIS Heren, raised the alarm after identifying what he believed to be attempts to distort the prices reported by the company. These benchmark prices are critically important because many wholesale gas contracts are based on them and small changes in the price can cost or save companies millions.

The revelations come at a highly charged time for Britain's energy sector, with many of the big six suppliers under public fire for alleged profiteering on household energy bills and mis-selling on the doorstep.

The energy secretary, Ed Davey, said : "I am extremely concerned about these allegations and will be keeping in close touch with the regulators while they get to the bottom of this."

In a statement, the FSA said: "We can confirm that we have received information in relation to the physical gas market. We take market misconduct seriously and will be analysing the material."

Ofgem said it had been given material "relating to trading in the gas market and is looking into the issue". The energy regulator said it had limited powers in this area but would "consider carefully any evidence of market abuse brought to our attention as well as scope for action under all our other powers".

The City and energy regulators are keenly aware of the growing political concern that high energy prices, which are linked to wholesale values, can increase fuel poverty and undermine economic growth. , he Green MP Caroline Lucas said: "If these revelations stand up to analysis by the FSA and Ofgem, then this is corruption on a massive scale and a shameful case of corporates coming together to exploit a public utility."

The market abuse concerns were initially raised by Seth Freedman, a former City trader who worked as a price reporter at ICIS Heren for nine months. He told the Guardian he believed problems he spotted in a frenzied half-hour of trading on 28 September were more widespread.

"Traders have made clear to me that manipulation of gas prices is taking place on a regular basis.

"They name big companies among those they accuse of trying to rig prices and reap profits. Market participants claim the fixing of prices is an open secret," he said.

He also claimed that:

• The big six companies are among those whose names are quoted by traders as being involved in attempts to raise or depress wholesale gas prices.

• The key benchmark indices produced by at least one price reporting agency (PRA) and used increasingly in massive UK supply contracts are unreliable, and undermined by poorly-trained staff and over-cosy relationships between traders and price reporters.

• Traders regularly put price reporters under pressure to change prices they disagree with.

• Price reporters struggle to set accurate benchmarks because they lack detailed information about trading in the opaque so-called "over-the-counter" market and are dependent on what traders tell them about market activity.

Full story is here:

www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/12/...pulation-gas-markets

If you click on the link there are some videos of interviews with the whistleblower.
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 08:21 #2

  • wake_up_bomb
  • wake_up_bomb's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 5063
  • Thank you received: 4418
  • Karma: 56
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 08:26 #3

  • dubs
  • dubs's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Voluntarily Inactive
  • Rank0
  • Goodbye and Goodluck
  • Posts: 5408
  • Thank you received: 2474
  • Karma: 69000000
It's my considered opinion that energy supply, like water should not be for profit.
The future's market style marketing has to be stopped. Tankers sitting offshore waiting for price rises has to be stopped. The old blood is currently simmering just below boiling point...
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: psketti, jhado

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 08:44 #4

  • wake_up_bomb
  • wake_up_bomb's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 5063
  • Thank you received: 4418
  • Karma: 56
dubmeup wrote:
It's my considered opinion that energy supply, like water should not be for profit.
The future's market style marketing has to be stopped. Tankers sitting offshore waiting for price rises has to be stopped. The old blood is currently simmering just below boiling point...
Surely if the government has a purpose it should be to provide a functioning infrastructure to the people, to make sure utilities, transport, etc, run relatively efficiently, and that they are funded with public money and owned collectively. Otherwise, what are we paying tax for?
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
Last Edit: 13 Nov 2012 08:49 by wake_up_bomb.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: psketti, dubs, andyh, jhado, Gilly

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 09:11 #5

  • dubs
  • dubs's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Voluntarily Inactive
  • Rank0
  • Goodbye and Goodluck
  • Posts: 5408
  • Thank you received: 2474
  • Karma: 69000000
in an age where more and more of what should be collectively held and managed is being placed in the hands of the profit motive, one has to say thats a very good question wub.
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 13:53 #6

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
wake_up_bomb wrote:
dubmeup wrote:
It's my considered opinion that energy supply, like water should not be for profit.
The future's market style marketing has to be stopped. Tankers sitting offshore waiting for price rises has to be stopped. The old blood is currently simmering just below boiling point...
Surely if the government has a purpose it should be to provide a functioning infrastructure to the people, to make sure utilities, transport, etc, run relatively efficiently, and that they are funded with public money and owned collectively. Otherwise, what are we paying tax for?

Correct, with money they print themselves with taxation to reduce inflation....not to pay bankers profits,bonuses and salaries which in turn get spent on private yachts and docking facilities in the cyaman islands etc....all tax deductible ofc :roll:
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: psketti

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 16:51 #7

  • coates
  • coates's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Junior Boarder
  • Rank2
  • Posts: 354
  • Thank you received: 57
  • Karma: 0
ive said it before the only way to bring down prices is to go to your petrol station and fill up and just pay half and with hold the tax...it only takes a number of drivers to do this and hopefully the rest will follow...stop acting like sheep and try acting like men for once
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 16:54 #8

  • psketti
  • psketti's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Hired help
  • Rankadmin
  • we cant stop here, this is dog country
  • Posts: 15528
  • Thank you received: 5668
  • Karma: 100
coates wrote:
ive said it before the only way to bring down prices is to go to your petrol station and fill up and just pay half and with hold the tax...it only takes a number of drivers to do this and hopefully the rest will follow...stop acting like sheep and try acting like men for once

So you've done this then yes?
the anorak hides the fact that sean is composed of 95% vaginas
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 16:56 #9

  • wake_up_bomb
  • wake_up_bomb's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 5063
  • Thank you received: 4418
  • Karma: 56
I spent nothing on petrol this year, and I predict I will spend nothing on petrol next year. I'm doing my bit! Having said that, if I got behind the wheel of a car, I wouldn't need to steal any petrol to end up in trouble with the police...
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 17:04 #10

  • psketti
  • psketti's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Hired help
  • Rankadmin
  • we cant stop here, this is dog country
  • Posts: 15528
  • Thank you received: 5668
  • Karma: 100
wake_up_bomb wrote:
I spent nothing on petrol this year, and I predict I will spend nothing on petrol next year. I'm doing my bit! Having said that, if I got behind the wheel of a car, I wouldn't need to steal any petrol to end up in trouble with the police...

Same here. Maybe we should all do that too and say fuck the licence.

Actually, despite the sarcasm, I am partial to that idea.
the anorak hides the fact that sean is composed of 95% vaginas
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 17:05 #11

  • dubs
  • dubs's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Voluntarily Inactive
  • Rank0
  • Goodbye and Goodluck
  • Posts: 5408
  • Thank you received: 2474
  • Karma: 69000000
Paying half at the till is about the worst idea imaginable....
Not only would it most likely get you done for bilking but if you did get away with it you'd be penalizing the wrong people. Does anyone seriously think the gov would waive it's pound of flesh? No, the franchisee would lose out.

If you have to run a car, a very good option is to get a turbo diesel and run it on used veg oil mixed with a bit of petrol. The process of making your own fuel is so simple Daisy could do it. No alterations need to be made to the car (save winding the fuel and boost up to really enjoy your cheapo fuel :D ), you just pour it straight in.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: psketti, andyh

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 17:24 #12

  • coates
  • coates's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Junior Boarder
  • Rank2
  • Posts: 354
  • Thank you received: 57
  • Karma: 0
penalising the wrong people? what you mean the supermarkets..dont make me laugh mate...just go and do it and show a bit of bottle for once!
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 17:27 #13

  • coates
  • coates's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Junior Boarder
  • Rank2
  • Posts: 354
  • Thank you received: 57
  • Karma: 0
i run on lpg gas and rarely pay more than 75p per litre but will fill up with petrol just to make the point..it would be a civil matter because you are paying for the fuel in full just with holding the tax..so police shouldnt be involved...try it be brave
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 17:27 #14

  • StarsChildren
  • StarsChildren's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • El Blanca Loco Uno
  • Posts: 2786
  • Thank you received: 1427
  • Karma: 45
coates wrote:
penalising the wrong people? what you mean the supermarkets..dont make me laugh mate...just go and do it and show a bit of bottle for once!

You are slowly starting to piss me off :coffee: I can't put a finger on why exactly, but I can feel the urge to bitch slap someone coming on in increments.
I came into this world kicking and screaming while covered in someone elses blood
and I have no problem with going out the same way :twisted:
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 17:28 #15

  • dubs
  • dubs's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Voluntarily Inactive
  • Rank0
  • Goodbye and Goodluck
  • Posts: 5408
  • Thank you received: 2474
  • Karma: 69000000
coates wrote:
penalising the wrong people? what you mean the supermarkets..dont make me laugh mate...just go and do it and show a bit of bottle for once!

Yawn. Did you mention supermarkets before? Must have missed that.
We don't all live in big towns you know ;)

Bottle? :killinme: Your plan doesn't require bottle now does it, just a good helping of self delusion.
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 17:31 #16

  • dubs
  • dubs's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Voluntarily Inactive
  • Rank0
  • Goodbye and Goodluck
  • Posts: 5408
  • Thank you received: 2474
  • Karma: 69000000
coates wrote:
i run on lpg gas and rarely pay more than 75p per litre

That's a good option for some. There are not insubstantial costs in the conversion though, the tank is a pita and lpg isn't available everywhere. Plus, it's still more expensive than homemade fuel.

As for withholding tax......yeah purely a civil dispute twixt yourself and the garage owner eh :facepalm:
Last Edit: 13 Nov 2012 17:35 by dubs.
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 17:32 #17

  • psketti
  • psketti's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Hired help
  • Rankadmin
  • we cant stop here, this is dog country
  • Posts: 15528
  • Thank you received: 5668
  • Karma: 100
dubmeup wrote:
coates wrote:
penalising the wrong people? what you mean the supermarkets..dont make me laugh mate...just go and do it and show a bit of bottle for once!

Yawn. Did you mention supermarkets before? Must have missed that.
We don't all live in big towns you know ;)

Bottle? :killinme: Your plan doesn't require bottle now does it, just a good helping of self delusion.

Innit :psketti:
the anorak hides the fact that sean is composed of 95% vaginas
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 19:21 #18

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
dubmeup wrote:
coates wrote:
penalising the wrong people? what you mean the supermarkets..dont make me laugh mate...just go and do it and show a bit of bottle for once!

Yawn. Did you mention supermarkets before? Must have missed that.
We don't all live in big towns you know ;)

Bottle? :killinme: Your plan doesn't require bottle now does it, just a good helping of self delusion.

Aye :)

I don't have to argue with the till attendant, I just put down my VAT expenses and bollox to it basically.
No forecourt drive off, no jail time necessary. lol :p

I always say, people who don't bother to mention the really stinking obvious legal way of avoiding taxation are just shills ;)
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.

Re: 'Libor-like' Manipulation in Gas Prices 13 Nov 2012 19:53 #19

  • Gilly
  • Gilly's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Psychic Assassin
  • Posts: 11225
  • Thank you received: 6506
  • Karma: 99
coates wrote:
ive said it before the only way to bring down prices is to go to your petrol station and fill up and just pay half and with hold the tax...it only takes a number of drivers to do this and hopefully the rest will follow...stop acting like sheep and try acting like men for once

Do you have a vehicle? :roll:

*Edit* I've read more of the thread now. Why do you keep trying to incite stupidity? Acting like sheep? David - is that you? :D
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
Last Edit: 13 Nov 2012 19:56 by Gilly.
You must register to post here.
  • Page:
  • 1
Moderators: psketti, oioioi, batou
Time to create page: 0.173 seconds

Latest Members Blogs

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Prev Next

What is going on when it comes to 9-11 I…

The EPA (environmental protection agency) and OSHA took air samples in the days following September 11th, they reported that they found no excessive levels of asbestos contrary to other findings....

Read more

9-11 Eleven Years Later

9-11 Eleven Years Later

With the anniversary of September 11th literally just around the corner, unanswered questions still remain for families who lost loved ones during the tragic event, as well as from families...

Read more

Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass An…

Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass Animal Deaths

In 2008 the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to review a series of lower court rulings that restrict the United States Navy's use of sonar in submarine detection training exercises off...

Read more

Annual Server Target

Whether its 50 cents or five dollars, your donations are appreciated and help keep this community site running so we can all continue to enjoy using it.
This target is to meet our server cost for one year, June 2020 - May 2021, in USD.
$ 340 - Target
( £ 250 GBP )
donation thermometer
donation thermometer
$ 192 - Raised
( £ 140 GBP )
donation thermometer
56%
Most Recent Donation:
$122 USD on 4th Jan 2021
Bitcoin Address: bc1q0kazqya0nurfxtunxv807vm0m8852nnrrk8mj8
 
Ethereum Address: 0xe69915c80dd75df19f438d556267e04f932f057d
 
More Info: Donation options for TZ

No one is obliged to donate, please only donate what you can afford. Even the smallest amount helps. Being an active member is a positive contribution. Thank You.

TradeZone Latest

Visitors

Today3591
Yesterday4432
Week3591
Month28526
Total1126950

Your IP Address: 216.73.217.112 Your Browser and OS: Unknown - Unknown Monday, 24 August 2026 14:23

Who Is Online

Guests : 930 guests online Members : No members online
© 2012 – 2021 Sanctum Zone | All rights reserved. This website is a place for people to express and discuss their views on the news and world events. DISCLAIMER: Please Note: Views expressed and submitted by contributors are their own personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions and beliefs of the Sanctum Zone website and its founder(s) , administrators , moderators , and any other website maintenance technicians, personnel and volunteers. Articles and messages posted on this website and forum are solely the opinion of their authors.

Login or Register

LOG IN

Register

User Registration
or Cancel