It's very simple...

The human 'system' was simply not designed to consume carbohydrates at the level that we are told is fine today. We are constantly reassured that carbs are important for a very good reason. I wonder if you can guess what that is?

It has occurred to me recently, thinking about survival and such, that our digestive system is actually a very sophisticated and wonderful thing. Why would it be struggling so much with the modern western diet? What has gone wrong? You can argue and debate this topic until you're blue in the face, but the facts are pretty startling and have always been there, if you care to look.

Imagine if you will, there is no farming, factories or shops where you can purchase foods. What are you going to eat? Whatever you can forage or hunt, right? There are no fields of corn; these don't exist as farming never happened. Potatoes/plantains and corns do grow, but they are few and far between. Your average human likely wouldn't be encountering these foods on a regular basis and certainly does not have the processes available to him/her to process said foods that we do today.

Sugar and fructose being a prime example. Far from being in most everything that is commercially available these days, this stuff would be a rare treat. Certainly, at a basic level, it would be something that is consumed along with fibre (what some call the antidote to sugar), just as nature intended.

Although this all looks good on paper, I've never really been able to afford to try it out fully for myself. I can rarely afford nutritious meat products and certainly don't really have the capacity to forage and hunt where I am now. Even when I did have money, I hadn't had the opportunity to educate myself as fully as I have recently on nutrition and diet, and pretty much just ate what I was told, even in adult-hood.

I'd like to hear your experiences of this type of 'diet', though in essence, I don't believe it really falls under the category of 'diet'. It just seems like common sense to me. Particularly, I'd like to hear from vegetarians. In line with my 'theory', it makes sense to me that there may very well have been long periods of time when the human 'animal' would have had to rely heavily on the foraging arm of our diet model, thus existed mainly on nuts, seeds, fruit and fish products. I haven't really justified this aspect in my mind yet, as during these times, our diets would have been quite carb-heavy. Having said that, the difference would have been that whatever we ate during these times would have been largely unprocessed and as they came.

What do you think? Cheers.

I agree basically with what you said. I don't eat meat though, and have noticed a change in myself since stopping (again)...more on that in a bit.

Sugar and fructose, IMO, is a lot more healthy than consuming all that "low fat" "fat free" "no sugar added" "low carb" crap they're pushing which is filled with poison *inserts finger in mouth and pretends to gag*
Pure, unprocessed, unbleached sugar is the kind you want to consume. It looks brown, sometimes comes in a stick/stalk/cane and sometimes smashed up imported out of Mexico (or other places) similar to white sugar. Kind of pricey, can't afford it all the time, but when people can get it, I think it is a preferred sugar intake than the other.

Would people not be able to garden during this time? Hot pack jars by boiling them? If so, that would bring back the farming methods, it would still leave the processed part of it out though (you process it to jar it, but not in a factory where god knows what goes in it too).

Also, in some areas... nuts and fish and the likes would not be available. Where I am at for example, I have seen very few nuts just growing, even in the mountains I have come across very few. And the only place off hand that I can think of for fish is a lake nearby where the fish are brought in and grown basically, they look like giant gold fish. So forging in this area would involve lots of bark, edible weeds, and water (if you're lucky and the stream isn't dried up)...you could of course hunt, we have rabbit, deer, bird etc... for those that eat meat and would do that.

What I have noticed with consumption of meat from the store here in my area. There is A LOT of hormones in it, and who knows what vaccines. While eating it there is increased moodiness, tenderness in the breast area, breakouts of acne, etc... When not eating it, that dramatically drops. If milk is removed from the diet, all of that basically disappears. So even if a person stops eating meat and dairy, hormones balance out and there seems to be less side effects (at least for me).

I don't know if that made any sense or if it's just random babbling, but that's my thoughts.

I agree with the OP on carbs, from personal experience, not because people say.

I dont like bread for example. Not a fan of carbs unless a lot of energy is to be burned. same goes for sugars.

I think a more natural diet is fruit, vegetable and meat based imo. some nuts also.

When you have tried one diet and the other, you see the difference in results, in your body.

Im not 'ripped' at the moment due to eating a bit too much carbs and sugars from having to do a lot of physical work..im carrying a bit extra and i will lose it, but have been in the past, so i know how to get there. Ive been there and then not there more than once, so i even more know how to get there.

to lose body fat like that and keep it off, means veg, some fruit, protein eg lean meats (grilled) and/or nuts...and cut back on the carbs as much as possible. it works despite what the naysayers and carb lovers say. In fact if you cut back on consuming carbs and sugars, one can get 'ripped' eventually without even exercise, other than daily routine...but it takes strict eating.

Many people are obese or overweight today because of carbs and sugars imo...and that includes all the sugary coffee people drink. Our bodies cant deal with it and store these toxins as fat. and i call them toxins because i think it fits.

Abs, you cant get a hold of decent chicken for protein? It seems to be the cheapest meat here.

EDIT: what stars said above i also agree with, hormoned meats and 'fat free' stuff...well as the anti mods sig says, its a chemical shitstorm.

Thanks stars! Valuable input, as ever.

I'm just trying to strip things right back to basics. I tend to think of the human as very much a nomadic animal, roaming around in groups, following food.

Agriculture changed all this, obviously. This is why I may be a bit stuck on it being such a negative thing, really. Certainly, without it, we wouldn't have the capacity to live in large cities as we do currently. Also, to my mind, it takes away the responsibility of the individual to nourish themselves, to a degree. Does that make sense?

I hear you re hormones and additives too. The only way around that really would be for us all to responsible for our own rearing etc. again. I've been looking into fruitarian type diets too, which again, under 'my' model would be perfectly acceptable, depending on where you happened to find yourself geographically.

This gist of it all is, if you couldn't pick it or kill it yourself, you shouldn't be eating it. Also, why be so reliant on processes that you know very little about? I really believe that many issues arise from the 'processing' aspects of our food. Again, nature has given you the antidote to the poison that is sugar right there in the fruit.

the reason a lot of people are fat is because they have no kind of exercise.
wake up
eat
drive to work
sit at desk
eat
sit at desk
eat
sit at desk
drive home
eat
sit and watch tv
eat
sleep

if this is just about nutrition, im sowwy

Cheers nov, was writing above when you posted.

I have been harping on at a friend of mine to try this type of eating out for years, as they have always complained about excess weight and how hard losing it seems to be.

Unlike myself, they do have the budget available to at least try it and I finally managed to convince them to do so recently. Basically, I told them they can only buy stuff they'd be able to find for themselves, were there no shops/factories/farms etc.

They've been doing it for a couple of weeks and have already lost close to a stone. They assure me they feel fantastic and that it has been really easy to do. They still have 'treats' on the weekends, but increasingly, they are opting for things like potatoes and dairy products, as they really love these, rather than crisps and sugary snacks. Interesting eh? They even said recently after eating a sandwich and some crisps on one of their treat days that they felt quite ill and wouldn't be doing so again for a while.

I love chicken too, but am a bit stumped on the prep tbh. I quite like chicken served cold though, so may give that a go. It is still reasonably cheap here too, I suppose.

Antidote to poison that is sugar in fruit? Fruit contains a type of sugar... can't remember exactly what it is called right now. I think it's pectin or something like that.

Yes, your "takes away our responsibility to nourish ourselves, to a degree" makes perfect sense. Too many times I see and hear people complaining about their weight or their diet or something else equally ridiculous and at the mere mention of "grow your own damn food" or "change from buying boxed stuff to buying the ingredients and cooking yourself" they seem to take offense....then follow up with 101 reasons they can't even attempt to grow their own food, or how they don't have time to cook.

batou wrote:
You raise an interesting point bats. Thank you.

If you're going in for this 'hunter/gatherer' type thing, it is a fair observation that much time would have had to have been spent foraging/hunting. Added to that, I believe these people would have been more nomadic than your average modern human, so would have been moving about a lot more anyway.

As nov pointed out, carbs can be useful when you have lots of physical activity to get through, but how would we have even known that? But, you're right. Sedentary living isn't really good for owt.

StarsChildren wrote:
Sorry stars...there's a good thread about it knocking about on here somewhere. I just meant, a piece of fruit is wrapped in fibre and other goodies which all help, rather than just extracting the sugar directly into a juice etc.

@Bat's and Ab's regarding weight. Sometimes it's not the lack of exercise or the lack of a proper diet but also includes medical reasons. Thyroid, metabolism, hormones.

I speak from experience with the above here...for a time now, my hormones have gotten all out of whack (working on getting them under control ATM) which has effected the way my body processes food and I think has also effected my thyroid and metabolism...no matter what I do, how much I do, how little I eat (keep in mind, I'm a vegetarian and have a bad habit of eating my food raw recently because I don't feel like cooking) I can't get the excess weight off. Last year I went through a period of not eating at all basically, lost the weight...finally started eating little bits again, gained it all back plus some in less time than it took to get rid of it.

Diets only work if you make them a lifestyle change...and by the time people get to being fat and having that excess weight, they could run 5-10 miles a day, swim another 5 a day, and do god awful amounts of other exercise and eat just enough to keep their body going and still not lose the weight because somewhere along the line their body stopped processing it the same. There are underlining reasons for some that result in the inability to lose weight.
So while there are a lot of people who are fat or overweight (and we have to decide, is overweight just a medical term that dictates what someone should weight based on their height and is often times "underweight", or is it what is a healthy weight for someones height regardless of what the medical establishment says)...anyway, back to what I was saying, there are a lot of people who are fat or overweight because they don't do anything, but there are also a lot of people who are there because they're body stopped processing it the way it should at some point, and those people shouldn't be automatically thrown in with the lazy people.

Edit: I also think part of the reason so many people end up having issues with how their body processes foods lies in, as in the OP, how it is processed and the additives and preservatives changing the food. Eventually your body could shut down because of the non-natural, foreign substances found in foods.

Ab Origine wrote:
Grilled chicken drops the weight off, and keeps it off if you are already there. Even pro bodybuilders eat chicken to get ripped for comps as part of their diet.

As far as keeping weight off goes, grilled is best. No oils. I use vertical grillers that cook both sides at once. season with a little pepper and perhaps oregano if you like it (i do), throw it in, thats it. whether its breast, or legs, skin or skinless, same deal, same seasoning. Of course skinless has less fat. Chicken legs fit in my griller whole, and they are cheap, cant deny that.

A bit of lemon juice perhaps on it when its done, (thats what i do also) and its quite edible like that, hot or cold. If its too bland for your tastes, eat it together with a side of boiled peas (and sliced carrots even as an option)

as for fruit...put aside all thats written about how much sugar is in a serve...i personally believe a piece of good fruit containing x amount of sugar does not have the same effect as processed sugars of the same amount...sometimes in summer i cant help but perhaps eat too much fruit off the trees i have...nectarines and apricots...yet i wont put weight on...change that to some sugary drinks, junk food or coffee and the weight climbs.

I agree completely stars.

I know physical activity can play a role, but as in my friend's case, he hasn't changed anything other than his mindset about what he eats. As I mentioned, actually looking at what he is putting in has even changed how he responds to some foods he used to love and not really think about. He has been 'experiencing' an actual physical (or what he perceives to be physical anyway) reaction to the processed crap, even after only a few short weeks.

Everyone is different, to an extent, I suppose. I still believe we're all fundamentally the same physically though, and that everyone would respond positively to this type of eating in the short-term. I'm no nutritionist though. It's just a hunch but I think it would work quite well for me.

that is true stars. i didnt mean everyone whos fat is lazy. but laziness, slothfulness etc.. it does no one a health favor.

also cos someone is fat doesnt make them unhealthy. fat has its purposes of energy storage etc.

A little off topic here. But it's not the fat on the outside that causes health problems, at least not as many health problems as the fat on the inside.

For example, a really skinny underweight person could wind up in the hospital because of a heart attack. While a really fat, overweight person has no health issues other than the weight. Reason being that skinny person, while on the outside looked to have no fat on them, their organs were surrounded by it.

But back on topic...
Yes, I agree Ab's...when a person changes their view of what they are consuming, and actually tests the idea out, they can experience a physical change and reaction.

batou wrote:
Dr Mary in the low carb explained vid talks about this too. Does she look fat to you? She doesn't to me, particularly, but some smart arse in the comments section on YT pointed out that he thought she was and would therefore not be listening to anything she has to say.

Again, who decides what 'optimal' weight is? Surely, if you feel healthy and it isn't effecting your movement, you're not "fat"?

StarsChildren wrote:
this is true up to a point, though there are links between waistline size and cardiovascular disease...its common sense that if you consume more bad fats like trans fats for example, it will clog your insides and fatten your outsides.

it depends on the primary type of fats consumed...trans fats are bad for example...the flip side is studies i have read on the 'mediterranean diet' where the primary source of fat is olive oil, people who still carry some weight tend to have lower incidences of cardiovascular disease...ie consuming a lot of olive oil can help make you chubby but your arteries will still be ok.