They all chose to leg it
So I said my bye byes.
"490.
You
5 Minutes ago

Well beggar all this ranting about corporatization. I'm off to spend what bit of fiat currency I have left (since Osborne got his cut to pay for the bankers bonuses and duck houses) at Maccy D's on the way to get my copy of the Daily Mail and pay my TV license. Hopefully that will help me decide who to back as the next mouthpiece of the State/Corporate machine. Baahhh. Bahhhh "

I feel that this Winsor thing is too good an opportunity to miss so tonight I am going into the Lion's den.

www.ukpoliceonline.co.uk/index.php

Wish me luck folks

Mmmm strange, it seems that the email address I registered at the 50 forum with is ummmm banned??????

Their forum sent me a confirmation email but it's a dead link.
The explanation given for this happening in their bumpf is that your account has been ummm not allowed......
Then I get a message saying if you can read this your account has been restricted.....

Can someone else try for me please? It's a little bit concerning

dubmeup wrote:
Weird.

Is somebody hacking you or keeping eye out? Or are there just some 'lil birds singing...

dubmeup wrote:
You're asking pertinent questions about the state on a BBC website...that's my theory anyway

Good questions and a few seeds planted though Even if only one policy enforcer contemplates what you've said it's a result

irrepressible wrote: The BBC account uses the same email addy yeah but surely they couldn't be connected could they?

Now that email addy has been used for lot's of dubs ventures into the MSM but surely this wouldn't lead to the 50 being all over it would it?

Someone else try and register for me pleeeeeeaaaassseee I am hoping that this is just down to a bug.

dubmeup wrote:
I don't know I'm on a PS3, hardly anything works with this thing :Chuckle: It could just be some glitch or something dub. I don't know anything really about that stuff

Kinell!!!!

I just registered with a different email address and.........straight in..

Confirmed as on some kind of watch list then lololol

Oi!! State Feks!!! Get fekked!!!!

So it also seems that Big bro really can bypass privacy legislation when it suits

EDIT: the restrictions bit seems to be there for ALL noobs until they click on it so that was a bit of a red herring but the fact remains that email addy seems to have been pre-banned

dubmeup wrote:
I'd say there's no doubt about it.

You need a convincing sock to play the part of a rebel plod

Anyway, I'm in and have now opened a thread called "Hi and let's talk Winsor"

"Hi, I've registered after having some interaction with a couple of you boys in blue at the BBC today.

From that interaction it seems that there is a feeling in the Police service that Winsor's appoitment is a very bad move.
We've all seen the onset of privatization of areas of the service with G4S being taken onboard by a government that seems intent to privatise nearly every aspect of the British infrastructure. With Winsor's connection to G4S through his other work it woulds seem that he is indeed being put in to help usher in the change.

So what do you lot think?
Are you onside with a corporate Police Service?
Does it go some way to helping you sympathise with some of the protestor's (teachers et al) that you've been asked to police?
I'm hoping for an open and honest dialogue between a concerned citizen and the (current) upholders of law and order. I come in peace so to speak. Cheers "

*just noticed some terrible spelling*

Good news, one of the mods has moved my thread into a more public and relevant area of their forum

I'll do some multi-quotes for anyone interested as the discussion develops.

It's quieter than the DIF over there so I just posted this to pad out my OP a bit. Jeez it's hard coming across all meek and mild

"OK, I can see that the forum is a bit quiet. I guess you're all out catching bad guys or maybe having to fill in endless reams of regulated paperwork about that cat that was reported as being up a tree :wink: So I'll pad out what I was hoping to talk about a bit.

As I see it, succesive governments have taken a step by step approach to putting as many of our services as they can in the hands of the profit motive. We saw a massive amount of it in the 80s and though it slowed down somewhat in the 90s, it has continued pretty much unchecked.

Recently, the pace has gone up again. We've had all the PPPs etc and now you guys and gals are in the crosshair. We've increasingly seen areas of Policing put into the private sector.

Now we have Winsor. A man who has ties with G4S being shoved in as head of HMIC. Pushed in by May who has shares in Prudential. You are all far more informed than me about Winsor's report as I can see from reading a bit on here. I can see that the general feeling is that this is not good. I concur. I see that this is a big step in the encroachment of the private sector into policing. I can see a long term plan to eventually put the service you people do into the hands of those who's sole responsibility is to profit. Ie Corporations. This would not only be disastrous to your jobs but in my opinion not exactly great for the people of Britain either.

Now please take this next bit with an open mind. I can see that it is contentious. Over the years, I've seen the police service increasingly used politically. I'm sure that you all sign up for reasons like protecting the public from criminals, a desire to do some good for society etc. Not to be used by politicians and corporations as a shield. Increasingly I think that's what you've been asked to do as an add on to your daily duties. When other public sector workers have taken to the streets to protest against the ongoing march of corporations into vital services for example, the police service has been pushed out onto the streets. It's not as if nurses or teachers are norty anarchist gangs bent on burning London if you get my drift but all the same you've been sent out there by governments as if they were. And now I can see you being put in the self same position as those nurses etc.

Was it 20,000 police that marched the other day? That's the figure I heard

Some call all this stuff Austerity measures, I'd say it was akin to selling the family silver to seriously suspect people.

So my questions are initially as in the opening post.

Do you see this incursion of the corporate into policing as a problem for society?
Do these developments have any effect on how you see others that have done and will protest over such things?
Where do you see all this leading?

Personally,I think there is a very real risk of serious trouble on the streets of Britain in the not too far off future. The signs are all there and it's happening across Europe and the wider world. I see that we are all in this together and yes that includes you boys and gals. So what are your thoughts about that?

I know this is a big subject and I'm thankful to any of you that have read this far and likewise to any of you that contribute. Even if it's to disagree or shout me down

Cheers. I'll give you a chance to reply now and zip it for a bit "

So far 38 views and NO replies

"As a new member to the forum welcome!

There have been many instances in the past of new members coming onto the forum and asking these types of questions and it has not been well received for many reasons.

What I would suggest, to give you some kind of credibility amongst the members here is to start with a little bit of tradition, lets try introducing yourself, your background, career etc. Once people know a little more about you they may feel a little more engaging. After all if someone came up to me in the street wanting my views on all that you are asking, my first question would be "Who are you?"

Bakes
Administrator
UKPoliceOnline "

Me:

"Thankyou Bakes and I take your constructive criticism.

My name is Paul and I am a 40 something year old self employed father of three. I live and work in a very rural community where we see very little crime. I do keep abreast of goings on in the big world though

I have been involved in peaceful political activity over the years myself. I was involved in anti hunt activity, campaigned against the Criminal Justice Bill and was also involved in the road protest movement in the 90s. Then kids came along. I hope that this doesn't put any of you off talking to me. I have always been respectful of the Police in all of my Political activity and have never got involved in rioting or anything like that. I do appreciate the difficult position that the Police service is put in when asked to attend the kind of protest I have been involved in.

Anyway as I say, nowadays I am too long in the tooth to be running around the countryside having convinced a pack of hounds to follow me rather than chase a fox and I have taken to more sedantry activities like gardening and talking on the internet. I still have very real concerns about what I see happening in the world though. Predominantly the increasing stranglehold that corporations have over our lives and also the connection between members of government and those corporations. Heck just look at the revolving doors between banking and government in America. We in the UK aren't too far behind from what I can see!

I can't really be more frank and honest than that can I?

As I say, I hope this post doesn't put any of you off answering my questions in the spirit they are given.

Cheers. "

Bit nervy aint they

Excellent posts dub

Hopefully you'll get some good debate going. I'd like to hear from some police officers about how they see things, and where they think they're headed.

"Anna 32, Moderator:
OK, roughly speaking (everyone will have different opinions, after all):

People are really, really not keen on Winsor's plan by and large, as you can probably see from the rest of the forum! :tongue:

Are you onside with a corporate Police Service?
That's very much a no from most people. Other people see the value in bringing corporate expertise into support functions, other people feel a bit of both- that it's a good idea that will be abused/ mishandled. A lot of people think it's going to be a very bad idea.

Does it go some way to helping you sympathise with some of the protestor's (teachers et al) that you've been asked to police?
Hmm, I don't know why they wouldn't sympathise anyway? When police do public order duty they are there to maintain order and protect the welfare of protestors and bystanders- the cause is none of their business at that point and they cannot get involved. But it doesn't mean they don't personally agree with fox hunting/ oppose the Iraq War/ Oppose tuition fees/ whatever. They are not the enemy of the protestors or the opponent of the cause, and opinion varies quite widely. Regarding the public sector pension protests in particular, opinion varies from person to person. I would say there is a fair bit of understanding, though. "

Me, treading on eggshells a bit:

"Thankyou for your answer Anna.

Yes I do get the impression that you as a service are not in favour of Winsor! :biggrin:

Does the service have any plans or ideas about how to oppose Winsor when he inevitably aids the government in rolling out the G4S police service?

I brought up the subject of sympathizing with protestors for a perhaps very contentious reason.., In my conversation at the BBC today, it was mentioned that when poicing protests, on several occasions, peaceful and innocent protestors have ended up shall I say on the wrong end of a truncheon? Or kettled? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that on a big protest, some people do bad things. Anyone smashing things up for example deserves to face justice. They are hurting society. I also appreciate that Police feel fear and the effects of adrenaline too. The Policeman I was talking to mentioned that sometimes innocent people just get hurt as a result of a few bad eggs. Personally, I'd think it would be fairly easy to tell the difference between a peaceful protestor and a thug with a rock or a molotov. One could be forgiven for thinking that at times, the policing has gotten shall I say rather out of control? Unsympathetic? I don't want this to become the thrust of our conversation though. I know it's something that would probably not get us anywhere if we dwell on it here.

What I'd really like to focus on is this stuff with Winsor and the corporate world taking your jobs, slowly but steadily. "

"Yes, we have been through this many times before on here and if you search you will find lots of examples.

EDIT: for now, let's just say that media reporting is not always accurate, and that officers who abuse their power will get disciplined accordingly.

Edited by Anna32, Today, 11:24 PM. "

Me:
"Sorry, are you referring to my question about plans when you say yes? Please forgive me, I'm new here. As I said, I signed up as a result of a conversation that I had earlier with a serving member of the service. I haven't had musch chance to read yet.

At the risk of getting drawn in to the protest thing. Yes,I'm aware that the media don't always report accurately. I think that from my experience, on occasion that cuts both ways :wink:
I'd really rather we concentrated on this governmental/corporate plan to steal your jobs though if you don't mind "

Fek me my spelling over there is atrocious!! The last sentence is me using a bit of an emotive phrase to try and draw some others in on the convo 66 views and as yet only one real contributor....The word steal is one that I'm sure pricks the 50's ears up lol

Anna is now getting a tad arsey with me

"Yes, quite. As I have already told you, there will be no further discussion of protests in this thread.

So, Winsor. No, it is not popular. But there is absolutely nothing anyone can do except pick up the pieces afterwards. "

Me:

"That's a bit concerning Anna. It sounds like you have thrown in the Towel rather.
Are you saying that it's too late and the feeling is that it's a done deal and over the next few years we will start to see Police on the Streets with "sponsored by Maccy D's" on their uniforms? (Sorry I know that's a bit facetious).

I mean you can all see this is coming right? That in perhaps 10 years or less, the Police Service as we know it is likely to not exist. That it will resemble something akin to Blackwater and be serving the great God of profit and the whims of government rather than the people of Britain? And to be quite honest, the World? "

I can see this little mission is going to be long and will require some teasling out of hidden thoughts. So far It's all Anna and she is offering nothing that isn't available on da tube. I want to see what they really think about where this is headed. Other topics on the site are concentrating on fitness tests/pensions and the like. They don't seem to be looking much further than how they personally are affected. Typical civil servants I guess

"We know. None of this is news. There is nothing anyone can say about the implications of all this that doesn't already keep our members up at night. But there is, literally, nothing to be done- officers have tried marching, and petitioning, and shouting, and it is all completely and utterly hopeless. All anyone can do is keep going as much as they can, and try to shield the public from the worst of it.

(There are a lot of different factors at work here, which we will come to as the discussion progresses.)

Edited by Anna32, Today, 12:13 AM. "

She sounds like she's distraught about it really. And that is a VERY interesting and concerning post in my book.

Me:
"Trust me Anna it's giving people such as myself the odd sleepless night too!
This is kind of why I am here. I see this is being rolled out across the spectrum. At the moment yous are in the spotlight. Next week it'll be the Nurses again or whatever. Soon Self Employment will be clamped down on and it will be my turn......
What I'm getting at is that I feel somehow, old divisions need to be given up and the people of Britain and the World need to start standing together. Really that's what I was getting at with the 'sympathising' bit.

I hope you don't think I came here trying to teach you all to suck eggs or something. I just don't want to see it all as "hopeless". At the end of the day, those pushing this agenda are few and we are many. Did you see the reports of a march in Germany where the Police took their helmets off and joined the march? This is the kind of thing I'd like to see more of. I'd be happy to stand in solidarity with the good old beat bobby or traffic cop. Do you see what I'm getting at? We're in this together. I understand that you may all feel that you're stuffed. I want to assure you that if you accept it, The people are with you. Together we CAN throw spanners in the works of this plan. "

Think I may have come across a bit Commie there. I'll have to steer away from that angle.

Me:

"I hope you can all now see that I'm here with genuine concerns for all of our futures and trying to start up a dialogue about how we can face this together.

As Anna said, the Media play us all. They are corporate. One day they'll concentrate on some Police "atrocity" or how someone took a bribe from Murdoch, the next they'll be painting protestors as violent agitants. It all spreads division and makes us feel we are alone in a sea of other people's wrong doing.

If we allow that sort of thing to continue unchallenged, I can see big trouble coming and it wont be pretty for any of us...... "

By the way Fek you Icke! This is how you do it hahahahaha Joke. Or was it?

Aquiescence (spelling)

Anna has aquiesced. I suppose most of us do. That's how the bastards get away with all the shit they do.