irrepressible wrote:
Quite. She is giving the impression that She and the service as a whole is totally disempowered. I have to say this is inline with conversations I've had with serving and ex police in real life in the past couple of years. Really need some more of them to come in on it but it's late and I can see this will take some effort. They need a bit of dublove it seems

The thread is picking up views though so hopefully even if not many join in, it may be sowing some seeds over the next however long..

Its all good dubs

& as you are no doubt aware, as an admitted 'non police person' on that forum, you are always going to be regarded with a certain amount of suspicion whatever you say. Its just the way it is with the police. .

"Sectioned detection:

You seem to be running 2 general quests for answers. The first about the changes to policing as brought about by Winsor and second how police deal with protesters. I'll quickly try to answer both.

1) Winsor was a distraction to justify cuts nothing more. The fact May has refers to pay freezes (that weren't an issue raised by Winsor) in the same sentence as Winsors recommendations says it all. Police officers actually want change. The PFEW have been pushing for a royal commission on policing but has been turned down by the government. It's as simple as this. If as a law abiding member of the public you want most of your interactions with the police service to be through a PCSO or G4S or the organisation that protects you to be held together by nothing more than goodwill then these changes are a good thing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk...dshire-18369038

www.policingsolutions.co.uk/


2) I've policed loads of public sector protests that have gone without any problem at all. But that's not news worthy. It's simple. If its kicking off move out of the way. But I'd suggest searching the site as there are much more in depth discussions goIng on.

The long and short of it is the majority of the public aren't bothered enough to stand up and complain. Which isnt a criticism just and observation. They tend to just swallow the medias account hook line and sinker and see us as fat, lazy, incompetent fascists with a huge pension we got for free."

Me:

"Thankyou Sectioned.
Yes, I see that Winsor is a 'puppet' too. To be quite honest I'd say May is as well. They are nothing more than mouthpeices for decisions that are made behind closed doors in my book.
I think you can see that I don't want to be policed by G4S and no disrespect to PCSO's but I don't want to see more and more of them percentage wise either. I'm something of a traditionalist in that I'd like to see a well looked after Police Service that is doing it's job out of genuine concern for the wellbeing of the people. This doesn't seem to be inline with the ideas of them that are calling the shots and it seems you folks agree. They'd like to see low paid, low pensioned private sector workers who are doing what the government and corporations tell them. This is not good for anyone.

I agree that sadly, the majority of the public are swallowing what they are told in the main stream media. They look no further. So they are at the mercy of the self same corporations that are rolling this stuff out. There are many of us trying to pique people's interests in delving deeper into things but it's not easy. There is friction and a reluctance to believe that such a thing as government may not exactly have the people's best wishes at heart. That is slowly beginning to change though. Just not quickly enough to do anything worthwhile to stop this what I'll call 'takeover'.

PS, I would never call you Fat. A facist maybe hahahaha. No just kidding "

"Bart:
I'm following the implications of this with interest. Anything that impacts on the police will also impact on my service as we will be dealing with incidents for longer whilst waiting for the police to arrive. "

Me:

"@Bart. What service are you in? "

I'm having to post some of these in an order that reflects the train of conversation rather than how they appear on the actual forum

diamondgeezer wrote:
Yeah DG. Slowly though I think I'm getting their trust and hopefully this convo will grow.

"Sectioned detection
We won't be arriving. That's the point. Unless its arresting or searching it won't be a police matter. "

"Bart
Highways Agency Traffic Officer service. "

Me:
"@sectioned.
Yes and after that I can see even those things being solely in the hands of corporations. When you follow the money trail it leads you to see that those corporations are run by the same groups of people that run the media etc. They think they've got all bases covered it seems. But yet here we are, real people sharing our thoughts and concerns. Something they don't seem to bank on us doing. These people would not consider that yourselves and me, with my protesting history, would have this conversation for example. This is one of our strengths I feel.

@Bart In that case, I tip my hat to you. My experience with people in your area of work has made me think Wow! Just Wow! The things you deal with every day nearly crushed me when it happened just once in my life.....Please see my earlier post about an accident I was involved in. "

That was a post I haven't quoted about a fatal accident I was involved in when a speeding motorcyclist hit my car

"Sectioned detection
For anyone who doubts that privatisation will be kept to back office roles. G4S Counter Terrorism anybody?


https://www.policings...obid-jb-sp-0045 "

Me:

"Bloody Hells SD, I'm having one of those being kept awake thinking about it nights (thank heavens I've got no work on tomorrow) and I just checked back here to see that link.

Pretty much says it all doesn't it. This is the future unless we stand together.....And quick.

I'm sure you're all aware of how the designation of what constitutes terrorism has expanded in the last decade. Hell, to these people I'm probably a terrorist! Being here having this chat probably doesn't help my case in that regard even. And no I have no tin foil hat.

Anyone voicing dissent from this plan is now likely to be suspected as a terrorist. I know I've referred to America earlier but they generally get stuff not too far ahead of us and look at the stuff the Media/government/corporations have been saying about the occupy protests of late. The protests didn't go away so now they are classed as terrorists.
Again note the effect on the average joe by the use of such language in the media...

So G4S, who have everything to gain from quelling dissent are now to be at least advising on "terrorism". It really isn't good is it. The bigger picture I mean

I really do doubt this stops at back office roles though......In fact I know it wont "

G4S Counter terrorism..... Mmmmmmmmm

*reported to the council of anarchists for plod sympathising*

oioioi wrote: Don't think I'd be getting much from them or getting them to listen if I weren't slightly disguised oi

"I have just been reading through a related thread here and can see that the discussion is indeed up and running. Please bear with me, I've quoted some stand out sections and chipped in some thoughts:

Anna32

"If we're going down this route then I'd actually like to see greater competition among many more companies offering different skills- it's always the same 2-3

companies that crop up, and I'm not altogether happy with how much they're involved in worldwide or how accountable they are."

A very good point. What we see is multinational companies (corporations) being given total precedence all across the board with regards to contracts in 'public'

services. When you follow the money, you find that these companies are essentially arms of huge corporations that exert dominance in crucial areas such as banking,

arms, pharmaceuticals and energy. It's a hidden global monopoly


Simon T

"If we had a national company maintain our fleet vehicles we might end up all driving the sane brand which could lead to big savings. "


I totally get that. It makes great sense. Sadly though, no doubt we will be talking about a subsidiary of a multinational when the attention heads this way.



Kpeter20

"for years I have seen companies like capgemini continue to win government contracts despite performing as one of the most incompetent businesses in their last

government contract."

Ref: Capgemini is a French global IT services company, one of the world's largest management consulting, outsourcing and professional services companies with a staff

of 115,000 operating in 40 countries.

So here again we see that we are talking about multinational companies that have grown to have a huge reach being favoured with regards to contracts in British

services.


"G4S can't get people to and from court without letting them do one, imagine them trying to 'detain' someone let alone run parts of a police force."

Can't really say fairer than that can you!


MoreK54

"I'm not sure involving the private sector is the way forward, though. It fails to address to real issues. "

No it doesn't, you're right. I take your points in that post the the Police Service is totally overstretched. It is a VITAL service for the people of the Country and

the World. Privatizing it and putting it in the hands of Global Corporations is just insanity. Crime Prevention should be (and probably is) something that we taxpayers

are happy to chip in to. Yes our money should be used efficiently. Anything that syphons the money off in the form of profit is obviously not efficient. And that's

before we get onto the potential for abuse....


SimonT

"I do think the police should be run as a business. I dont mean for profit, i just mean in a sensible and well run manner"

Excellent comment. I think that Public Services CAN gain a lot from being run in a businesslike fashion.

Meditate

"The private sector can have some 'strange' practices which don't sit comfortably with those who are married to the public sector. You also tend to find terms and

conditions are a lot poorer."

Yes, I think most taxpayers recognise that the Public Services are vital, that the jobs are tough and that those prepared to do them should be comfortable and not

unneccesarily burdened by economic stress or job security. Those stressses would obviously be carried into the workplace and that aint good.


Skyes

"where will these companies operate from who has control of how they are deployed?"

They'll operate from a multi million pound yacht moored somewhere of the British Virgin Islands no doubt or a Leer jet. Facetious? Not based on what I've researched.

"The UK police service or the 43 seperate companies that loosely make up the UK police service cost a fortune to run and maintain doing everything their own way, own variations on IT, uniforms, vehicles, radios, stationary anything you care to think of massive costs on duplication and in efficiency, the government have indicated they are not willing to pay and are forcing financial cutbacks on all forces, the forces in turn are still not willing to look at the biggest costs saving opportunities and insist on maintaining their own little empires."

Yes, I think it's clear that this situation is daft. Surely this is something that you boys and gals can work on from within? I feel that if you don't deal with that you are walking into the Globalist trap and it will bite us all.

I won't carry on quoting from that thread. I think you can see that I get where you are coming from. A place of genuine concern. I am coming from the same place.

At present the Global Corporations have got so powerful that the weak and greedy politicians are just playing their tune. Yes, there does need to be major reform of public services. I'd contend that the major reason why things have been allowed to get so bad is to create the conditions whereby what we see on the horizon becomes a 'sellable' notion. Ie the wholesale handing over of our public sector to the corporations...... "

irrepressible wrote:
Because it pays her wages.
This is really deep down what everyone fears.

Yes Andy, as I hinted at before, having looked about a bit at the site, a lot of the contributors are indeed coming from a perspective related to their own jobs. I won't hang them for it but I would like to encourage them to draw their focus back to a much wider view.

As of now 160 views

dubmeup wrote:
I'm beginning to think that not everyone is capable of it dub no matter what they are shown in the way of evidence.
It's not so much an 'intelligence' thing as much as an ability to think a certain way. Some folks will just never have it.
It hardly seems ridiculously complex a matter to you or me but to these people their brain...well..it just refuses to look at it.
Their brains lack the required software to get out of the loop of denial
Some can even appear to be quite intelligent otherwise, they can manage a PhD in Maths or Physics but they cannot see the epic fail that is fractional reserve banking.
It's an incredible phenomenon when you consider it

Bang on andy. It's not a processor speed deficiency or that they need to pop to PC world for a few more gigs of ram, it's all down to the operating system and numerous poor quality choices at the software market.

This is why I do little incursions like this. In my own way I try to stick in little algorithms and subroutines that may perchance help empty some caches, do a bit of defragging and delete some old broken entries in the registry

I'm not trying to teach them anything, I'm just giving them an open source freeware option if they ever wish to do a bit of maintenance

dubmeup wrote:
Got to love the allegory there

The thread views continue to rise over there but no posts in that section of the forum today. So I thought I'd try and get it going again:

"I know this is a month old quote and you've probably allchatted about it before but I think it's relevant topost it here.

On the subject of Kellog Brown & Root tenderingfor the West Mids and Surrey contract:

Julie Nesbit, of the Police Federation.

"We believe simply that if you call a cop, you should get a cop, not a security guard, not a uniformed civilian nor an employee of a major international conglomerate."

So as I've said I'm not here thinking that I'm talking about things you're all not aware of. I just think this is something that is of critical importance on so many levels.

Why are we adopting a fatalistic acceptance of what we all know is being planned for us? We're all on the ropes for sure but we're not KO'ed just yet. Bloody nearly though. Tiz time for a Rocky style fightback I say. "

Fek that tempermental space bar!!!

You're well in there mate.
It won't be long until you're handle changes to DobbedHimUp eh?.

Get stuffed! (Insult changed for psketatorial reasons, namely she was growing to like the old one)

SimonT
"What sort of fufhtback are you suggesting? We want to fight but we don't have many avenues left and we have to keep policing. The public still need us even though we are being dragged away from them "


Me:
"Thanks SimonT,

Whatever we do, as I see it, it has to be far broader and co-ordinated than say, the Police service marching, the Nurses marching, teachers, pensioners, students, anti globalists etc. We've seen that kind of thing on many occasions and yet the tide remains unchecked. As I see it marches like those are too easy to be presented as the whines of separate, self interested groups. Because let's face it, they are! Except they are all essentially protesting about the same thing.

I'm not sure marching or anything like that is the way to go forward. We've kind of hit upon how such things are manipulated by the media before in this thread. A media controlled by the same people essentially that are pushing the Global Corporate world on to us all.....

Cunningly, successive governments have taken a very big stick to workers rights to not go to work if they don't want to. As in the restrictions on striking. What really ended apartheid in South Africa? The numerous National No Work days, where literally no-one who wasn't white went to work. If we were to try such a thing here and now, the government has all the legislation it needs to close every single union down. Hell you guys and girls have some of the worst restrictions!

Like I said before, they think they've covered all the bases. As I've said though, they are relying on conversations such as this NEVER taking place. Or have they? Perhaps that is the real reason why the internet has now come into the spotlight...

I'm afraid that even if I could, I'm not here to offer any answers. I'm here to open a dialogue. I have various ideas of things we can do as the sovereign people of Britain to resist this and turn it back. You'll be pleased to hear that none of them involve ugly, anti-social, criminal thuggery. All of them involve using our noggins and our hearts. I'm sure that plenty of you have your own ideas. The time for us all to be sharing them is now. "

Two or three days in and this thread is already one of the hottest topics in that section of the Police Forum

So at this point, I open it to the forum:

Anyone who has any ideas to put to them, now would be a good time to do it. If you are reading this and not registered here, now would be a good time to sign up and chip in your ideas

EDIT: how closely do we think MI6 will be watching that thread?

the police will stand by the people, you know when?

after they been fired.

and good point on the mi6, what about the military?

hadabusa wrote:
I asked that very question at the BBC the other day hads. It was ignored by the police that were there iirc.
This is something I've also hinted at in the discussion with them on their site.
Soon I will be discussing the coming planned economic meltdown with them and how they will deal with the ensuing melee that will no doubt take place. It seems that many of them can link the dots as to what's behind all this. I am trying to encourage them to remove the line between their job description and their own lives. In the hope that they will see how they are being/will be used if they don't think about this stuff and take action.
At the moment I have a bit too much on my plate to take this to the military as well. I've got a life to take care of too
Would be great if someone else could venture into the odd online discussion with servicemen/women
I will do it if I can find the time.