dubmeup wrote:
Ive never seen a person that uses heroin and been responsible {maybe for a short time} I would hate any of my sons or daughter to get mixed up with these scum bags.

The only insight i need is if they go near my kids they are getting knocked out.

irrepressible wrote:
That may sound daft to some but I think you hit a valid point. EVEN caffeine can have a negative effect on one's health/state of mind.
I wouldn't be surprised if the societal burden of even caffeine rivals that of heroin.

I don't see many threads stating that Kenco sellers are "scum" though eh....

nirvana wrote: That's your seemingly limited experience speaking.
I commend your natural fatherly instinct.

Not sure I can write too objectively on this subject. I've lost too many friends and kids I worked with to this shit.

There were always dealers, they tended to run a tight ship.
They wouldn't touch kids because it was a) wrong. b) brought to much heat/attention.

Then in 1979 the Shah was overthrown in Iran. Many of his top officials had their accounts seized so moving their cash out wasn't an option but they also held large stockpiles of heroin. They moved that to set them up in exile. The market had a huge glut of cheap smack hit it, all at once.

Way too much for the tight networks to handle. It got into the hands of previously small-time fuck-head crooks.
The gear was so cheap that the initial caper was to give a few bags away to kids, get them hooked and guarantee their return.
There was another nasty scam of soaking or coating cannabis resin with smack so that tokers built up a habit without even realising, were getting no result from ordinary weed so then offered a wee chase of the dragon.

Then the shit hit the fan. Too many dealers, not enough cops, whole estates thieving or mugging, turf wars and kids dropping like flies.

Dubs is of course correct, there are responsible dealers out there but be honest, they are few and far between now.
Life becomes cheap in that game and if a punter OD's there'll be another mark along in a minute.

Poverty drives it though. Some kid on a sink estate with no real chance of a regular wage will grasp at the cash offered for "punting a few bits of gear" another kid will score that gear to escape the fucking misery of their existence and so it feeds itself.

Many a time I've been tempted to go all Harry Brown on a few fucks but hey, that's not really the answer eh?

Mountain wrote: Oh yes, the physical addiction is very real for very many people. That is something which takes more time than most would think to build up though.Yes, this is common. Heroin is similar. You never get the same feeling that you first got again. That "chasing" is one of the pitfalls. People get hung up on wanting the original feeling so they increase the dosage. This in turn helps build up physical addiction. Luckily I avoided that trap by thinking about it.
Psychological dependencies are a massive factor. When I was a "user" I had the mindset that life without drugs would be terribly boring. I thought that I wouldn't be able to cope with the mundanity of a life free from drugs. How wrong I was I have to say that mindset even applied to cannabis. I was a daily toker for years and literally couldn't consider not being so.

dubmeup wrote:
www.caffeinedependence.org/caffeine_dependence.html

I get most of those withdrawal symptoms. It doesn't last long though.

Caffeine is hardcore!

This thread could use a bit of humour ...

feather wrote: Bang on.

Individuals have a variety of responses to any drug to be fair.
It's partly your own physiology but imo more importantly is your approach.
If you are aware of the dangers and can control them you'll probably be ok.
Ray Charles was a functioning smack addict his whole life.
We are surrounded daily with functioning alcoholics.

Often there is some underlying factor, low self-esteem, depression, ignorance, and/or even romantic idolisation of some musician etc in the mistaken belief that they were incredible because they took some dope and you want to be that.

It begins in the mind, master it there and you'll probably survive.

dubmeup wrote:
I am glad you overcame that boredom I am happy to hear

Oh and I thought I should add that Ocycotin and other Big Pharma drugs allegedly contain more concentrated doses of heroin and amphetamines than their street counterparts. I mention this because the addicts of these that I know deny being an addict because you know, its legal. All of them seem to be dealing with issues from a troubled childhood. Another subject perhaps, but many folks are trying to cope by using these substances to mask unpleasantries in their past.

Mountain wrote:
Big pharma peddles the most addictive drugs of all. Methadone for example is more addictive than heroin yet it is used to get people off skag. It's akin to the thinking of "the way to get out of debt is more debt"

In my case, I'd say that my early exploits into the world of illicit narcotics did indeed involve me trying to move on from childhood bad experience. Not that that was the prime motivation but certainly an equal contributory motivation.

dubmeup wrote:
Aww, you have us! *big hug*

psketti wrote:
There was a documentary about a journalist who tried heroin so he could write about the effects.Anyway 10 years later he was still trying to get off it completely destroyed his life.

www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/2001/may/20/life1.lifemagazine5

dubmeup wrote:
yes of course you never became an addict and your friend who been a user is not an addict.

nirvana wrote:
Oh come now nirvana. You can do better than that

Anyway, where did I say that these drugs are not addictive for some/many? Rhetoric of course.

The OP stated that dealers are "scum bags" and asked for opinion. This is what you are getting

nirvana wrote:
Can you read or do you just choose to willfully ignore what you read?

dubmeup wrote:
You should be on stage dubs

Ive got a mate who has can pack in smoking anytime he wants because he tells me hes packed in over 20 times now

nirvana wrote:
You said you worked in drugs and alcohol yet you seem unable to make the distinction between an addict controlled by their habit and a functioning user who controls their use.

They are very different.

dubmeup wrote:

No cold turkey ? was you using ibogain? if not I think you got ripped off that heroin you were using was not heroin.

nirvana wrote: I'd rather not go back there at this time ta
Relevance?