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TOPIC: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism

Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 30 Dec 2012 23:07 #241

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So childish, i respect that.
Andyh I think you should check out the definition of pessimism in the dictionary.

I'll look forward to the next time we speak about technology, "the idiot masses", socialism and government and the next time I get to read your pessimistic opinions on said subjects.

Far from this being true; "Pessimism = doing fuck all", I think you approach many of the topics you consider yourself an authority on, pessimistically, or at least come to some pessimistic conclusions.
Self centred thinking is pessimistic in it's nature imo as it discounts the most fundamental aspects of our human nature, sociability etc.

I think you brought up Mondragon in this thread, I just wondered if you might clarify what is wrong with the Mondragon system in your opinion?
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
Last Edit: 30 Dec 2012 23:09 by Guevarista.
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 30 Dec 2012 23:11 #242

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mikey mikey wrote:
Andyh is right to be wary of the conflation of realism and pessimism.

101%

^Keep it up.

8th time.

Meanwhile, what did you do this week besides collect your dole payment and project on everyone else?
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 30 Dec 2012 23:35 #243

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Someone mentioned work programme providers supposedly helping the unemployed become self employed?

In my experience they don't in reality....they just go through the motions of appearing to do so.
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Last Edit: 30 Dec 2012 23:38 by diamondgeezer.
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 30 Dec 2012 23:38 #244

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diamondgeezer wrote:
Someone mentioned work programme providers supposedly helping the unemployed become self employed?

In my experience they don't in reality....they just go through the motions of doing so.

And pick up the spondoolicks. Lead to me getting away with a 10 week summer in Greece, obv. not 'signing on' at my self-employment trainers. Luckily they didn't want to lose their cash either and stated I'd attended, big fat giro on my return :cool:
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 30 Dec 2012 23:39 #245

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diamondgeezer wrote:
Someone mentioned work programme providers supposedly helping the unemployed become self employed?

In my experience they don't in reality....they just go through the motions of doing so.

Exactly.
They sure as hell do not provide the info needed and business loans to kick off with are a sure fire way to end up going down the plughole.
What they need are targeted vocational hands on skills for something that is in demand.
If there's no demand for it then its pointless to expect someone to make a business out of it. Lets face it, that the whole intention all along. They want you to fail.
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 30 Dec 2012 23:40 #246

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diamondgeezer wrote:
Someone mentioned work programme providers supposedly helping the unemployed become self employed?

In my experience they don't in reality....they just go through the motions of doing so.
Yeah I heard the statistics for a couple of local offices last week, a large percentage of people they are helping to find work, are becoming self employed, the one near me runs various workshops and advice in regards the financial side of it all.

WHy don't we do it and call it Sanctum employment? We could have a secret society within the organisation called the inner sanctum?
Enterprise Clubs – support for self-employment

We are clear that more needs to be done to encourage and help unemployed people to see self-employment as a viable route off benefits and into financial independence.

On 31 January 2011, the Minister for Employment announced the launch of Enterprise Clubs. This is a Great Britain wide initiative targeted at unemployed people interested in self-employment. It aims to support the development of a network of locally-led, community-based clubs which will grow organically across the country.

Setting up an Enterprise Club

The main aim of Enterprise Clubs is to help people make the most of local knowledge and resources to help unemployed people in their communities set themselves up as self-employed or start their own business.

They will empower local communities and encourage people to work together to offer additional support to unemployed people who are interested in becoming self-employed. They will also help local communities to become more prosperous by encouraging private sector growth.

Enterprise Clubs will provide unemployed people interested in self-employment with a place to meet and exchange skills, make contacts, share experiences, receive support and encourage each other to work through their business ideas.
Other support to get Britain working

Enterprise Clubs is one of a number of options we are developing to get Britain working and will focus on supporting unemployed people interested in self-employment ahead of entry to the Work Programme. It will complement support offered by the New Enterprise Allowance, which is available to people who have been receiving Jobseeker’s Allowance for six months or more.

Get Britain Working – more information on other welfare to work measures
New Enterprise Allowance – more information on support to become self-employed for people who have been receiving Jobseeker’s Allowance for six months or more.
Work Clubs – more information on setting up a Work Club to support unemployed people to find a job.

Setting up an Enterprise Club

If you are interested in setting up an Enterprise Club or think you could help support one, then you can find practical help and advice in the products below. These should provide you with information that will tell you what you need to know and who you should contact.
dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/enterprise-clubs/
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
Last Edit: 30 Dec 2012 23:42 by Guevarista.
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 30 Dec 2012 23:45 #247

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andyh wrote:
diamondgeezer wrote:
Someone mentioned work programme providers supposedly helping the unemployed become self employed?

In my experience they don't in reality....they just go through the motions of doing so.

Exactly.
They sure as hell do not provide the info needed and business loans to kick off with are a sure fire way to end up going down the plughole.
What they need are targeted vocational hands on skills for something that is in demand.
If there's no demand for it then its pointless to expect someone to make a business out of it. Lets face it, that the whole intention all along. They want you to fail.
Do you even realise you're doing that pessimism thing? :rofl:

I read somewhere recently that the ONS put's the amount of new starters in Self Employment at 220,000 in 2012.
johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2012/08/page/2/
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
Last Edit: 30 Dec 2012 23:45 by Guevarista.
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 30 Dec 2012 23:47 #248

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oioioi wrote:
diamondgeezer wrote:
Someone mentioned work programme providers supposedly helping the unemployed become self employed?

In my experience they don't in reality....they just go through the motions of doing so.

And pick up the spondoolicks. Lead to me getting away with a 10 week summer in Greece, obv. not 'signing on' at my self-employment trainers. Luckily they didn't want to lose their cash either and stated I'd attended, big fat giro on my return :cool:
Only fucker on the dole with a suntan :mad:
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 30 Dec 2012 23:50 #249

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Guevarista wrote:
andyh wrote:
diamondgeezer wrote:
Someone mentioned work programme providers supposedly helping the unemployed become self employed?

In my experience they don't in reality....they just go through the motions of doing so.

Exactly.
They sure as hell do not provide the info needed and business loans to kick off with are a sure fire way to end up going down the plughole.
What they need are targeted vocational hands on skills for something that is in demand.
If there's no demand for it then its pointless to expect someone to make a business out of it. Lets face it, that the whole intention all along. They want you to fail.
Do you even realise you're doing that pessimism thing? :rofl:

I read somewhere recently that the ONS put's the amount of new starters in Self Employment at 220,000 in 2012.
johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2012/08/page/2/

9th time :)

How is it pessimistic to point out reality as it stands? Its errmmm let me see now...oh yeah...realistic.

Again , just what have you done exactly?
Did you get 6 people self employed? Did you even get 6 people employed?

/parp
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 31 Dec 2012 00:08 #250

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Reality as it stands is complex, does it even "stand" or is it "rolling" whether your pessimism comes before your refusal to investigate the complexity, or your refusal to investigate the complexity comes before your pessimism I'm not sure, but both are definitely present in your outlook imo. The reality is you can take a positive approach to these things, or you can do what you do.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 31 Dec 2012 00:15 #251

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Guevarista wrote:
oioioi wrote:
diamondgeezer wrote:
Someone mentioned work programme providers supposedly helping the unemployed become self employed?

In my experience they don't in reality....they just go through the motions of doing so.

And pick up the spondoolicks. Lead to me getting away with a 10 week summer in Greece, obv. not 'signing on' at my self-employment trainers. Luckily they didn't want to lose their cash either and stated I'd attended, big fat giro on my return :cool:
Only fucker on the dole with a suntan :mad:

Their game.

Their rules.

My interpretation.

:biker:
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 31 Dec 2012 00:17 #252

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Guevarista wrote:
Reality as it stands is complex, does it even "stand" or is it "rolling" whether your pessimism comes before your refusal to investigate the complexity, or your refusal to investigate the complexity comes before your pessimism I'm not sure, but both are definitely present in your outlook imo. The reality is you can take a positive approach to these things, or you can do what you do.

Your refusal to do anything besides prop up logical fallacies for the lets see now...10th time...is getting tiresome.
I took a positive approach remember?
I've still yet to see you address anything I asked about. All I see is projection, projection coming from yourself, perhaps because you wish to avoid anyone looking too deeply at you instead and what you've done.
I would wager very little.

6 self employed lads who are still doing it some months down the road is no small achievement for 1 guy imho, I might yet manage more and I've never had any govt involvement or so called 'help' from those bastards.

If you think 6 is pessimistic then zero is less than 6, ergo you're even more pessimistic than me.

Now you can either choose to abandon that flogic or continue to look like a plonker, up to you.
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 31 Dec 2012 00:26 #253

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Explain to me why me highlighting your pessimistic outlook is a logical fallacy please?

Pessimism is a condition of action, not an absence of action, one can conduct their work pessimistically or optimistically, one can construct their theories for what kind of work is valuable, pessimistically or optimistically, on the latter I'd say I'm optimistic.
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 31 Dec 2012 00:34 #254

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It's kind of a gross irony that a thread about Racism turns into two white people arguing about money etc. shall we put this one to bed, the kind of idiocy Gremlin will be remembered for has long been put to bed I feel his crudely named thread should also?
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
Last Edit: 31 Dec 2012 00:35 by Guevarista.
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 31 Dec 2012 00:35 #255

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Guevarista wrote:
Explain to me why me highlighting your pessimistic outlook is a logical fallacy please?

Pessimism is a condition of action, not an absence of action, one can conduct their work pessimistically or optimistically, one can construct their theories for what kind of work is valuable, pessimistically or optimistically, on the latter I'd say I'm optimistic.

11th time, you really are beginning to look the plonker aren't you?

Again with the logical fallacy, this time by avoiding mentioning realism it therefore implies that only pessimism or optimism can exist or be relevant to the thread.

So for example, you're optimistic...just how the fuck has that helped anyone out today?

How does being optimistic/pessimistic have any relevance here? Perhaps a paragraph or two about the proles and the bourgoise will somehow clear things up?

How does your being optimistic make you any better than me given that you've basically contributed jack shit of any real worth?
Does this make you a big man by trying to win these epic interwebby battles of bullshit somehow?

Does singing keep the red flag flying somehow help loads of people out? Voting labour perhaps? Joining a union while on the dole perhaps? Or how about talking shit on the internet?

I've explained I prefer to do real things for real people that makes a real difference, I couldn't care less if its 6 or 600, I did what I realistically could. I support a big family all the while and I pay my own way and I do it all 100% legal and above board despite everything the govt and 'the man' tries to throw at me.

Lets face it, you feel guilty and this just makes you feel better with yourself yep?

Well I got news for ya, I aint gonna let you enjoy it, the more you try, the more pain I'll hand out. ;)
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 31 Dec 2012 00:37 #256

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tbh andy and gue, I've stopped reading. If push came to shove do you think you'd be pushing together or not?
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 31 Dec 2012 00:39 #257

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oioioi wrote:
tbh andy and gue, I've stopped reading. If push came to shove do you think you'd be pushing together or not?

The applecart? :D
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 31 Dec 2012 00:44 #258

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oioioi wrote:
tbh andy and gue, I've stopped reading. If push came to shove do you think you'd be pushing together or not?
Nope on practically every matter, I find andyh hypocritical and disingenuous to say the least.
He has an attitude problem.
I refer you to around post 217:
I said:
I honestly think if you went to a tory councillor or wrote consistantly to Tory MP’s with a workable model along the lines you repeat in this thread they would probably create the andyh foundation and you’d be given every assistance in enacting this model for 100% employment you seem to imply, that’s what I honestly think, so I’d say have at it, if you want any assistance finding contact details for UK or Irish Conservative politicians who I think would be favourable I;ll gladly assist.

The reality is your method is a totally viable way of reforming capitalism, I think WUB advises reverting to the Gold Standard for currency, reigning in lending and similar solutions, these are all solutions that would gain some credence in factions or groups of the Tory party imo.
I still maintain andyh's views would be popular among innovative and enterprising capitalists, I don't know why he has basically flat out rubbished my suggestions to try and further his personal idea>?
The mean­ings that are the most directly prac­ti­cal are the ones that are sac­ri­ficed: the fla­vor, aroma and touch are abol­ished to the profit of the delu­sions that per­ma­nently lead sight and hear­ing astray.
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 31 Dec 2012 00:54 #259

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Guevarista wrote:
oioioi wrote:
tbh andy and gue, I've stopped reading. If push came to shove do you think you'd be pushing together or not?
Nope on practically every matter, I find andyh hypocritical and disingenuous to say the least.
He has an attitude problem.
I refer you to around post 217:
I said:
I honestly think if you went to a tory councillor or wrote consistantly to Tory MP’s with a workable model along the lines you repeat in this thread they would probably create the andyh foundation and you’d be given every assistance in enacting this model for 100% employment you seem to imply, that’s what I honestly think, so I’d say have at it, if you want any assistance finding contact details for UK or Irish Conservative politicians who I think would be favourable I;ll gladly assist.

The reality is your method is a totally viable way of reforming capitalism, I think WUB advises reverting to the Gold Standard for currency, reigning in lending and similar solutions, these are all solutions that would gain some credence in factions or groups of the Tory party imo.
I still maintain andyh's views would be popular among innovative and enterprising capitalists, I don't know why he has basically flat out rubbished my suggestions to try and further his personal idea>?

The reason why you don't understand why I have no interest in tories speaks volumes for how little attention you've been paying to what I've said.

My views would most certainly NOT be popular amongst tories. Tories support the capitalism of the few, not the many.
If you read what the definition of capitalism actually is you'll find it clearly states 'ownership of the means of production'.
It says nothing about how many people or how few actually have ownership of the means of production.

ALL mainstream political parties work to support the status quo, which is ownership by the few at the expense of the many.
This has always been the way of things throughout human history, your complete denial and avoidance of such little facts leads you to continue in the circlejerk.
When you talk of using the system to change the system you completely fail to acknowlege that countless people before you have tried that very same thing.
If you continue to do the same thing over and over again but expect a different result then you are by definition completely batshit insane.
Yet when I point this out...I am the one who gets told I am insane and a 'conspiracy theorist' and on and on the circlejerk continues.

I'll repeat for you again...I have done what is possible and what is reasonable for 1 man to accomplish.
I will not partake in a system that is infested with people like common purpose and other such assholes who seek to destroy, divert and ultimately ruin hard work.

IMHO what I have done has been more effective without help than it could ever have been with any 'help' from such a crowd.
I have no faith in such a system and I consider myself quite sane for doing so.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: "Works Like a Nigger" - a poem addressing racism 31 Dec 2012 00:57 #260

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Guevarista wrote:
oioioi wrote:
tbh andy and gue, I've stopped reading. If push came to shove do you think you'd be pushing together or not?
Nope on practically every matter, I find andyh hypocritical and disingenuous to say the least.
He has an attitude problem.
I refer you to around post 217:
I said:
I honestly think if you went to a tory councillor or wrote consistantly to Tory MP’s with a workable model along the lines you repeat in this thread they would probably create the andyh foundation and you’d be given every assistance in enacting this model for 100% employment you seem to imply, that’s what I honestly think, so I’d say have at it, if you want any assistance finding contact details for UK or Irish Conservative politicians who I think would be favourable I;ll gladly assist.

The reality is your method is a totally viable way of reforming capitalism, I think WUB advises reverting to the Gold Standard for currency, reigning in lending and similar solutions, these are all solutions that would gain some credence in factions or groups of the Tory party imo.
I still maintain andyh's views would be popular among innovative and enterprising capitalists, I don't know why he has basically flat out rubbished my suggestions to try and further his personal idea>?

"What's that coming over the hill?"

Is it Gue or andyh?
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