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TOPIC: why don't palestians convert to judaism?

why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 01:49 #1

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If it is a matter of survival why not convert and move to israel and practice their own religious beliefs in secret if they want.

History books have examples of followers of judaism converting to christianty in the past in Europe and carrying on their own beliefs.
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 01:55 #2

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They've probably spent their whole lives viewing them as the enemy... so probably not a very straight forward decision!
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 02:21 #3

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Lots of Arabs live in Israel, the Israel-Palestine 'conflict' isn't really related to religion.
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 03:23 #4

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
Lots of Arabs live in Israel, the Israel-Palestine 'conflict' isn't really related to religion.

Of course its related to religion.
truth-zone.co.uk/ - the other place...

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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 03:59 #5

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The truth of the matter?

truth-zone.co.uk/ - the other place...

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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 04:12 #6

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diamondgeezer wrote:
The truth of the matter?

I don't think I could possibly disagree with that more than I do. To say this is a selective view of the issue would be something of an understatement. How could you discuss the Israel-Palestine situation without mentioning the $100 billion of direct military aid from the United States since 1974? Or the fact that Israel is occupying Palestine? Or Nakba Day? Or Israel's flagrant flaunting of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty that the Iranians are supposed to obey slavishly? It's not the Israelis' land, it's the Palestinian's land, Israel is occupying Palestine and guns down unarmed protesters all the time. That's leaving aside the fact that they've created millions of refugees. This is all just historical fact. Yet despite that he spends the entire video talking about a load of stuff (which I am not generally in favour of) that has absolutely no relevance to the situation whatsoever.
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 05:10 #7

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But its related to religion right?
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 10:52 #8

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diamondgeezer wrote:
But its related to religion right?

"Irrational(!) Islamic Jew hatred" or both religions?

Yer mate there seems to think it's only one religion.

Did you get a new wooden spoon for chrimbo?
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 13:15 #9

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Pat Condell has a Daily Mail mentality.

Is he even aware that not all Palestinians are muslim.?

14.2% are Christian.

As for why either these Christians or Muslims converting to Judaism.

1) Judaism does not accept converts as easily as other religions.

2) Conversion from Islam (Apostasy) is punishible by death under more extreme Islamic laws.

3) Christians who have faith would rather die.

And last but not least

4) Why should they have to do that?
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 13:23 #10

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mikey mikey wrote:
Pat Condell has a Daily Mail mentality.

Is he even aware that not all Palestinians are muslim.?

14.2% are Christian.

As for why either these Christians or Muslims converting to Judaism.

1) Judaism does not accept converts as easily as other religions.

2) Conversion from Islam (Apostasy) is punishible by death under more extreme Islamic laws.

3) Christians who have faith would rather die.

And last but not least

4) Why should they have to do that?

That would be my answer. :)
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 13:41 #11

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
diamondgeezer wrote:
The truth of the matter?

I don't think I could possibly disagree with that more than I do. To say this is a selective view of the issue would be something of an understatement. How could you discuss the Israel-Palestine situation without mentioning the $100 billion of direct military aid from the United States since 1974? Or the fact that Israel is occupying Palestine? Or Nakba Day? Or Israel's flagrant flaunting of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty that the Iranians are supposed to obey slavishly? It's not the Israelis' land, it's the Palestinian's land, Israel is occupying Palestine and guns down unarmed protesters all the time. That's leaving aside the fact that they've created millions of refugees. This is all just historical fact. Yet despite that he spends the entire video talking about a load of stuff (which I am not generally in favour of) that has absolutely no relevance to the situation whatsoever.

Pat Condell is great at times, other times he's got the blinkers on....its a bit like Stefan Molyneux.
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 14:22 #12

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diamondgeezer wrote:
But its related to religion right?
Not many people will agree with me, but, no, I don't think it is. There are Jewish and Muslim communities in Manchester, and they don't exactly mix much, but they don't mix with anyone else either. I see them basically living in peace with each other. They might not like each other very much, but you could say this about any other number of pointless separatist groups that exist. There are Arabs living in Israel.

In my view, the Israel-Palestine issue is entirely predicated on the fact that Israel is occupying Palestine, suppressing the Palestinians, and receives huge military support in order to do so. I think any people of any race, colour, creed, whatever denomination you want to give them, would react the way that the Palestinians are. I'm not crazy about the Jewish religion, and I'm not crazy about Islam. I'm equally not overly keen on people (I know that you're not one of them) who imply that every Muslim wants to mutilate his daughters and suicide bomb the White House. Or who say that all Jews are part of a Talmudic conspiracy to run the world. I really view this as a very basic issue of greed, control and power, as most major issues ultimately are.

The Palestinians could all denounce their religion tomorrow, and nothing would change. The US would still fund Israel. Israel would still ruthlessly 'defend' itself. The Palestinians would still be refugees. Yes, I wish they'd drop some of their more extreme religious beliefs, but I don't think this contributes to the situation on the ground.
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 16:09 #13

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There are Arabs living in Israel.

Yes, and as Pat Condell points out, they have more freedoms there than they do in any Arab country.

But (as Pat also points out), there are no Jews living in Arab countries are there? No, because they wouldn't last very long would they.

Isreal has a right to exist, end of.
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 16:13 #14

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diamondgeezer wrote:
Yes, and as Pat Condell points out, they have more freedoms there than they do in any Arab country.

But (as Pat also points out), there are no Jews living in Arab countries are there? No, because they wouldn't last very long would they.

Isreal has a right to exist, end of.
I agree. Everyone sensible favours a two-state, pre-1967 borders solution, apart from all the people who benefit from Israel occupying Palestine. Unfortunately, they're the most powerful people.
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 16:14 #15

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diamondgeezer wrote:
There are Arabs living in Israel.

Yes, and as Pat Condell points out, they have more freedoms there than they do in any Arab country.

But (as Pat also points out), there are no Jews living in Arab countries are there? No, because they wouldn't last very long would they.

Isreal has a right to exist, end of.

Did someone say israel didn't have any more/less right to exist than any other state or something? :)
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 16:38 #16

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andyh wrote:
diamondgeezer wrote:
There are Arabs living in Israel.

Yes, and as Pat Condell points out, they have more freedoms there than they do in any Arab country.

But (as Pat also points out), there are no Jews living in Arab countries are there? No, because they wouldn't last very long would they.

Isreal has a right to exist, end of.

Did someone say israel didn't have any more/less right to exist than any other state or something? :)

I believe that nutjob Imadinnerjacket said something along those lines, yes :)
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 16:48 #17

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diamondgeezer wrote:
I believe that nutjob Imadinnerjacket said something along those lines, yes :)
This has been scandalously misreported. You can read a long, and I must say excellent, article about this here:

www.globalresearch.ca/wiped-off-the-map-...-of-the-century/4527

I would expect nothing less from Arash Norouzi as he was one of the co-founders of the superb and authoritative Mossadegh Project:

www.mohammadmossadegh.com/

Even if he had said it, I don't think it offers justification for the Israelis to continue to slaughter the Palestinians. This can't end unless the Palestinians basic right to exist is acknowledged and there is a two-state solution.
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 16:55 #18

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and there is a two-​state solution.

Absolutely! Its the ONLY solution!

But Hamas don't want a two-state solution do they?
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 17:14 #19

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diamondgeezer wrote:
Absolutely! Its the ONLY solution!

But Hamas don't want a two-state solution do they?
Well, you could get into a long discussion regarding this, but ultimately Hamas are not occupying Israel. Hamas' action I do not necessarily agree with, but surely some sort of reaction to what's occurring is inevitable? Furthermore, the number of Israelis that have died in this conflict is trivial compared to the number of Palestinians. Yet the Western media pretty much always implies, certainly the broadcast media is guilty of this, that Israel is being besieged by Hamas, and is defending itself. This is literally the total opposite to what is actually occurring. Palestine isn't even recognised as being a state by most Zionists. You get articles like this when it's even suggested:

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/no...es-racist-status-quo

The 1947 plan involved asking many of the Palestinian people to give up their homes and land. It was in no way reasonable. Yet even suggesting that Palestine should be recognised as a state is apparently "racist". Even if it was justified, the slaughter that took place on Nakba Day, in 1948, certainly was not. But we never hear about this. We never see Israel's conduct being held to account. Chomsky, the Jewish writer, recently described it thus:

news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20121118003140399
Israel uses sophisticated attack jets and naval vessels to bomb densely-crowded refugee camps, schools, apartment blocks, mosques, and slums to attack a population that has no air force, no air defense, no navy, no heavy weapons, no artillery units, no mechanized armor, no command in control, no army… and calls it a war. It is not a war, it is murder.

When Israelis in the occupied territories now claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population they are crushing. You can't defend yourself when you're militarily occupying someone else's land. That's not defense. Call it what you like, it's not defense.
I respect people's concerns about repression in Islamic countries, but this is simply a nuclear power slaughtering pretty much unarmed civilians. Religion plays little or no part in what is going on.
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Re: why don't palestians convert to judaism? 30 Dec 2012 17:18 #20

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diamondgeezer wrote:
and there is a two-​state solution.

Absolutely! Its the ONLY solution!

But Hamas don't want a two-state solution do they?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reco...e_State_of_Palestine

Looks to me like Israel and the Anglo-American empire don't want it.
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