I can tell you they are already together and in the process of doing so, some have already fulfilled their obligations and have passed away. Some of the people who helped us over20 years ago, were themselves helped decades before that. Its not a new phenomenon all of this self pelf, the majority really should listen to experience without getting vexed or letting it become a burden listening.

The learing process can be an arduous and long, one ones own, again, without truly honed and skilled hands or helpers, the self pelf healing procesd simply cannot begin, if they are totally unskilled, yet they have Hands, that's what its all about.

To realise the full potential, our hands lacking overall need to start making things, the whole keeps on deneying this simplest of realities, those who can show how to fasten and untie the knots already have the tooling, to ease the passage, even spare tools to the right minds.

First find where your lacking, choose the most interesting subject matter in the arena one thinks they will succeed and search out a watcher and willing maker of things, there is the word, go seek and do, nothing else need be said, other than its like a careers adviser back in school, but instead you do the seeking.

I have little else I can offer in the way of how it can be acheived, but "first I ceased" trying to pull those doing the offering the helping, a common traight for many who suddenly realise their own weaknesses/insecurities, down to my level.

.......... wrote:
Its a start. Its an example for others to follow.
App talks of 'childerick' often which is basically about putting off debt today on our kids future tomorrow.
The public sector is now larger than the private sector in the UK and the govt has no money of its own. It raises its money 2 ways, one via taxation and the other via loans.
Now if the public sector is purely paid for by the govt from the above funds, just where the f*ck is the money coming from to pay for it?
The answer is that it has to inevitably come from the private sector taxation...AND EVEN THEN...almost solely from the private sector EMPLOYEE.
And almost all our private sector is now services which are not sold abroad, there is f*ck all we export, we produce jack sh*t.

This is a recipe for disaster but the voters keep on asking for those handouts!

Just what the hell is the UK govt going to do with its trillions of debt if/when interest rates go up? lol

There's only 1 thing they do, print money. We're talking Zimbabwe.

The only rational choice is to abandon a failed mechanism, which is ofc the entire economy. There are some in-between solutions such as going back to full reserve banking, writing off debts etc but it must be understood that any solution which uses the monetary concept will involve pain on a scale that no-one wants to see.

andyh wrote:
Yep, that just the way it is, and why we are doing it our way, and in doing so we are saving more than others are earning, legally on their terms, their rules.

.......... wrote:
No, but if it works for you then it's a good thing to do. The best place to start is with ourselves.

hugorune wrote:
Not just the best place but the only place, quite literally.
If we're expecting the govt to solve this then we're only doing more of the same we've always done.

No-ones saying get yourself 100% self sufficient thats ridiculously unrealistic. You start with the little things first, perhaps just growing 1 veg in a plant pot and giving it a go, then perhaps slowly working your way up to self employment and reaping all the rewards and perhaps having your own water/fuel/power etc.
Its impossible to be completely off-grid imho, especially if you have a family its a crazy ask.

It all starts with the realization that you have to pay your own way in life and the only way you can manage that, is if you're not shouldered with debt, both of your own making and the govts making via tax.

andyh wrote:
The place I'm moving into in a few months has a bit of garden so I'll be able to plant a bit and have some space for pots and stuff. I'm hoping to be in a position to move into self employment toward the end of the year, unless the world is going to explode due to any doom date that I'm not aware of, so I have small things moving in the right direction.

Being single and debt free I'll also be able to just up sticks and move if necessary. I think that's probably the biggest advantage I have.

Like you say, getting out of the machine is practically impossible. The best we can do is strive to lessen the effect it has on us.

Self employment is bloody difficult tbh.
The trick from my experience is being willing to train up in an area where there is demand.
If you start with the idea that you can do what millions of other people do, or that you can do what you are perhaps already 'employed' to do then you will likely fail.
You are also more likely to fail if you have to borrow money to get started.

So some investigation is key initially along with a willingness to completely change 'career' if necessary so to speak.

Long gone are the days when you could easily get into this lark and its a bloody shame too :/

Self employment for me will be voice work. The initial 'training' and set-up/agencies fees will set me back, but with my house move comes a 450 quid a month saving so I'll be looking at early summer to train and probably later into the year before the chance to get established work.
I'll have to remain in some sort of regular employment even whilst doing my own work, but hopefully just part-time by then.
Slow steps to begin with.

hugorune wrote:
Sounds like you have your head screwed on.
Is there demand for what you have planned?

andyh wrote:
Quite a bit actually. The biggest market is corporate work for things like training videos and automated phone systems. Audio books and newspaper voice over work is increasing and then there's radio and television adverts but the field I am most interested in is animation and film.
The beauty of an English accent is that it's popular in the States and Canada (very much on the corporate side) so chuck in a few pip-pips and some 'I says' and they'll let you tickle their tummies.
It won't be easy to begin with, I'll expect to do some penny pinching initially, but it's a step in the right direction.

Ridiculous levels of toxic pollution with devastating impact TODAY not tomorrow.

www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/science/earth...the-charts.html?_r=0

Beijing China, air particulates off the scale....

andyh wrote:
I don't understand how you can agree with me here yet treat me as if i'm behaving like a bad truther in the woolwich thread?

Because you don't keep to it.
Mike thinks the whole banking thing is OK, he also thinks debt based money is OK and you thought Mike was OK.

If you have some kind of sensible consistency then it's fine ofc. Did you bookmark this thread then?

Mike was obviously a bit slow, can't believe he actually thought FR banking, which is one of the biggest false flags ever is actually OK! WTF? what an idiot he sounds like one of those "love is the only truth truthers" like Danny Shine who think "everything is OK".

andyh wrote:
No your wrong Andy i thought Mike was OK as a human being it had nothing to do with banking and debt based money.

Not only have i made threads about Zeitgeist but i have mentioned on multiple occasions how it brought me to DIF & SZ.

I wan't to make it clear that i understand wealthy people are exploiting the banking system to hoard money.

I believe people should have homes, cars and the ability to travel around the world and it's unclear how Anarchy will provide that.

But just because i think the western system gives people these opportunities does not make it ok for the 1% to hoard billions.

As for Mike & Ire as a member of this forum i wasn't going to let the cool crew just gang up and be mean to them.

.......... wrote:
When you replace the word anarchy with 'people' in your post above then you'll come to understand I guess.

andyh wrote:
Fair enough, but do you see what i'm getting at?

Do you understand where i'm coming from?

.......... wrote:

Didn't have any revelation then when you replaced anarchy with people?
Ah well, back to the drawing board, lol

FALSEFLAGFRANKY wrote:

.......... wrote:
Yes, that's what happened ffs.