Sanctum Zone

Keyword
A+ A A-
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: What changed their views from 1975-1991

What changed their views from 1975-1991 24 Feb 2013 19:31 #1

  • humanspirit
  • humanspirit's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Expert Boarder
  • Rank4
  • Posts: 1736
  • Thank you received: 894
  • Karma: 21
I am interested in your opinions on why back in 1975 Zionism was viewed as a form of racism yet in 1991 the views of many of the Nations had changed.
I am not concerned with the question of is Zionism racist but what i am interested in is why the political representatives of many the countries changed their views or were not willing to vote.

1975

1991
naivety attracts evil and evil attracts naivety
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 24 Feb 2013 21:08 #2

  • novum
  • novum's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder 
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 4125
  • Thank you received: 2306
  • Karma: 0
For me, the nations leaders take orders from higher up, the unseen hand so to speak (at least to voters).

The wealthy elite, industrialists, their think tanks and so on. And I do think part of that is the royal families, including QE2 and the people around her.

I feel many of them have wanted an Israel to exist for quite a while now, and at the same time there existed legitimate opposition... but as the centralisation of power continued to occur, pressure is applied to any opposition, at least thats my take on it.

Sir Moses Haim Montefiore (or Moses Chaim Montifiore), 1st Baronet, Kt FRS (24 October 1784 – 28 July 1885) was an English financier, banker, philanthropist and Sheriff of London.

He donated large sums of money to promote industry, education and health amongst the Jewish community in the Levant, including the founding of Mishkenot Sha'ananim in 1860, the first settlement of the New Yishuv.

As President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, his correspondence with the British consul in Damascus Charles Henry Churchill in 1841-42 is seen as pivotal to the development of Proto-Zionism.

Jewish philanthropy and the Holy Land were at the center of Montefiore's interests.

In 1854 his friend Judah Touro, a wealthy American Jew, died having bequeathed money to fund Jewish residential settlement in Palestine. Montefiore was appointed executor of his will, and used the funds for a variety of projects aimed at encouraging the Jews to engage in productive labor. In 1855, he purchased an orchard on the outskirts of Jaffa that offered agricultural training to the Jews.

In 1860, he built the first Jewish residential settlement and almshouse outside the old walled city of Jerusalem, today known as Mishkenot Sha'ananim. This became the first settlement of the New Yishuv. Living outside the city walls was dangerous at the time, due to lawlessness and bandits. Montefiore offered financial inducement to encourage poor families to move there. Later on, Montefiore established the two Knesset Yisrael neighborhoods, one for Sephardic Jews, one for Ashkenazim, which were even further away.

Montefiore donated large sums of money to promote industry, education and health amongst the Jewish community in Palestine. The project, bearing the hallmarks of nineteenth century artisanal revival, aimed to promote productive enterprise in the Yishuv. The builders were brought over from England. These activities were part of a broader program to enable the Jews of Palestine to become self-supporting in anticipation of the establishment of a Jewish homeland.

In 1812, Moses Montefiore married Judith Cohen (1784–1862), daughter of Levi Barent Cohen. Her sister, Henriette (or Hannah) (1783–1850), married Nathan Mayer Rothschild (1777–1836), for whom Montefiore's firm acted as stockbrokers. Nathan Rothschild headed the family's banking business in Britain, and the two brothers-in-law became business partners. Montefiore retired from his business in 1824, and used his time and fortune for communal and civic responsibilities. Physically imposing at 6 ft 3 in (1.91 m), he was elected Sheriff of London in 1837 and served until 1838. He was also knighted[4] that same year by Queen Victoria and received a baronetcy in 1846 in recognition of his services to humanitarian causes on behalf of the Jewish people.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_Montefiore

^ point of me putting that up is to show that the British Royal familiy where knighting proto-Zionists, which indicates to me they supported it.

And I think the British Royal Family (for one) are far from being powerless politically all the way to today, modern times, despite the fact that they make themselves out to be somewhat powerless these days, and the result of this is other nations leaders/representatives being influenced over time.

Along the same lines, a number of members of the Rothschild family involved in Zionism and setting up Israel have also been knighted by the British Royal Family, indicating to me the influential royals support it of course.
In 1917 Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild was the addressee of the Balfour Declaration to the Zionist Federation,[29] which committed the British government to the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.

After the death of James Jacob de Rothschild in 1868, Alphonse Rothschild, his eldest son, who took over the management of the family bank, was the most active in support for Eretz Israel.[30] The Rothschild family archives show that during the 1870s the family contributed nearly 500,000 francs per year on behalf of Eastern Jewry to the Alliance Israélite Universelle.[31]

Baron Edmond James de Rothschild, James Jacob de Rothschild's youngest son was a patron of the first settlement in Palestine at Rishon-LeZion, and bought from Ottoman landlords parts of the land which now makes up present-day Israel.

In 1924, he established the Palestine Jewish Colonization Association (PICA), which acquired more than 125,000 acres (22,36 km²) of land and set up business ventures.[32] In Tel Aviv, he has a road, Rothschild Boulevard, named after him as well as various localities throughout Israel which he assisted in founding including Metulla, Zikhron Ya'akov, Rishon Lezion, and Rosh Pina.

A park in Boulogne-Billancourt, Paris, the Parc Edmond de Rothschild (Edmond de Rothschild Park) is also named after its founder.[33] The Rothschilds also played a significant part in the funding of Israel's governmental infrastructure. James A. de Rothschild financed the Knesset building as a gift to the State of Israel[34] and the Supreme Court of Israel building was donated to Israel by Dorothy de Rothschild.[35] Outside the President's Chamber is displayed the letter Mrs. Rothschild wrote to the then current Prime Minister Shimon Peres expressing her intention to donate a new building for the Supreme Court.[36]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_family


So in summary I think pressure from powerful wealthy elite changed some nations views over time.

I think we all know what happens if a nation doesnt play ball these days, first comes financial/economic pressure, then last resort is the Lockheeds are sent in and Raytheons fall from the sky. (Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan... Nth Korea next?)
Y11
Last Edit: 24 Feb 2013 21:15 by novum.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: humanspirit

What changed their views from 1975-1991 24 Feb 2013 23:22 #3

  • ..........
  • ..........'s Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 2786
  • Thank you received: 362
  • Karma: 0
I agree with what novum said....
"The Great Liberator" aka #1 Anarchist
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 16:42 #4

  • Mike
  • Mike's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Expert Boarder
  • Rank4
  • Posts: 1257
  • Thank you received: 183
  • Karma: 0
WHen were the Munich olympics?

In the time frame you mention there were a few mad bastard terror groups in Europe, Carlos the Jackal, Badder Meinhoff, JRA that were getting training, financial and logistical support from Palestine and other Arab countries.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: humanspirit

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 16:46 #5

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
Mike wrote:
WHen were the Munich olympics?

In the time frame you mention there were a few mad bastard terror groups in Europe, Carlos the Jackal, Badder Meinhoff, JRA that were getting training, financial and logistical support from Palestine and other Arab countries.

Wasn't Carlos a marxist?
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 16:46 #6

  • Mike
  • Mike's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Expert Boarder
  • Rank4
  • Posts: 1257
  • Thank you received: 183
  • Karma: 0
Israel's Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman laid a wreath Thursday at Uganda's Old Entebbe airport to pay tribute to a hostage rescue bid there by Israeli commandos in 1976.

Lieberman stood in silence as he read a plaque explaining the events of July 4, 1976 at the airport, which still bears bullet holes from the firefight to free scores of hijacked Israeli nationals.
...
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's elder brother, Yonatan, was killed in the raid code-named "Operation Thunderbolt" to free the passengers aboard a hijacked Air France jet that was commandeered to Entebbe.

"I wish to thank the people and the government of Uganda... and we appreciate you for keeping the memories of our heroes in your history."

Palestinian militants had hijacked the jumbo jet in Athens and ordered the pilot to fly to Entebbe with 250 passengers aboard, among them 85 Israeli nationals.

The hijackers, from the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) along with some members of the German Baader-Meinhof gang, demanded the release of jailed Palestinian militants.

the PLFP was a terrorist group of limited popularity, formed in 1967 after the Six-Day War; combined Marxist-Leninist ideology with Palestinian nationalism; used terrorism to gain attention for their cause; hoped to eliminate the state of Israel
www.thefreedictionary.com/Baader-meinhof
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 16:57 #7

  • Mike
  • Mike's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Expert Boarder
  • Rank4
  • Posts: 1257
  • Thank you received: 183
  • Karma: 0
andyh wrote:
Mike wrote:
WHen were the Munich olympics?

In the time frame you mention there were a few mad bastard terror groups in Europe, Carlos the Jackal, Badder Meinhoff, JRA that were getting training, financial and logistical support from Palestine and other Arab countries.

Wasn't Carlos a marxist?

They were called Marxist, But I don't really see in what way they were, I mean Arthur Scargill was a British Marxist at the same time as them, and fairly different I would say, they were essentially labelled Marxist imo, historically referred to Marxism, to make people like us scared of the term ;)
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 17:01 #8

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
Mike wrote:
andyh wrote:
Mike wrote:
WHen were the Munich olympics?

In the time frame you mention there were a few mad bastard terror groups in Europe, Carlos the Jackal, Badder Meinhoff, JRA that were getting training, financial and logistical support from Palestine and other Arab countries.

Wasn't Carlos a marxist?

They were called Marxist, But I don't really see in what way they were, I mean Arthur Scargill was a British Marxist at the same time as them, and fairly different I would say, they were essentially labelled Marxist imo, historically referred to Marxism, to make people like us scared of the term ;)

Does that seem familiar at all? :D
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 17:07 #9

  • Mike
  • Mike's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Expert Boarder
  • Rank4
  • Posts: 1257
  • Thank you received: 183
  • Karma: 0
Yeah Islam being used to refer to Al Qaeda.
Thinking about it the turning point was probably Zbigniew Brzezinskis book around 1970 on the West taking over Eurasia, the Western need to subdue Arab Nationalism and Marxism in Arabia.
Last Edit: 25 Feb 2013 17:08 by Mike.
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 17:12 #10

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
Mike wrote:
Yeah Islam being used to refer to Al Qaeda.
.

Hehe, I'm sure Oi will put you right later :p
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 19:22 #11

  • oioioi
  • oioioi's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Zone Facilitator
  • Rankmod
  • with my droogs
  • Posts: 13058
  • Thank you received: 7307
  • Karma: 91
Anarchism - Marxism
Anarchist - Marxist
Anarchy - Marxy?

Nope, I don't remember the MSM ever referring to violence as an outbreak of Marxy.
If you have any issues with the forum or it's members, for a speedier response, rather than pressing the report button, please post them here: sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/Forum-Projects--...scussion-thread.html
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: andyh

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 20:18 #12

  • Abs
  • Abs's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • How are you thinking today?
  • Posts: 6891
  • Thank you received: 3940
  • Karma: 112
oioioi wrote:
Nope, I don't remember the MSM ever referring to violence as an outbreak of Marxy.

Hey...I like it.
What we are today comes from our thoughts of yesterday, and our present thoughts build our life of tomorrow: Our life is the creation of our mind.

-Buddha
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 20:21 #13

  • humanspirit
  • humanspirit's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Expert Boarder
  • Rank4
  • Posts: 1736
  • Thank you received: 894
  • Karma: 21
I have always been anti nazi and anti lets blame the jews but the state of Israel obviously has some powerful people behind it to be able change so many countries political leaders views on the subject.

So who benefits the most out of Israel being where it is?

Has the state of Israel played it's part or have things not even started yet in that area?

It's a pattern that has been used before,create a small country with conservative religious fanatics to go to war with your chosen country.

Northern Ireland is a prime example,Northern Ireland was not created for the benefit of the majority who live there,they are the foot soldiers and cannon fodder,Northern Ireland was created for a select few to benefit from.

This in my view is why Israel was created,although i am still unsure who the beneficiaries really are.

I am still at the point where i consider the Military/Banking Industrial Complex to be the main beneficiaries.
naivety attracts evil and evil attracts naivety
Last Edit: 25 Feb 2013 20:22 by humanspirit.
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 20:37 #14

  • oioioi
  • oioioi's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Zone Facilitator
  • Rankmod
  • with my droogs
  • Posts: 13058
  • Thank you received: 7307
  • Karma: 91
humanspirit wrote:

So who benefits the most out of Israel being where it is?

Indeed.

Well I don't see a great benefit to Jews or Muslims from Israels existence (or not) beyond "My God is bigger than yours!" bragging rights. so I'm willing to concede it's got little to do with religion.
If you have any issues with the forum or it's members, for a speedier response, rather than pressing the report button, please post them here: sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/Forum-Projects--...scussion-thread.html
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: hugorune

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 21:50 #15

  • Space Bandit
  • Space Bandit's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 3804
  • Thank you received: 2275
  • Karma: 70
humanspirit wrote:

I am still at the point where i consider the Military/Banking Industrial Complex to be the main beneficiaries.

One war ends..... a new front is created. All the better for the MIC.
Set the controls for the heart of the earth.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: andyh

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 21:55 #16

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
humanspirit wrote:
I have always been anti nazi and anti lets blame the jews but the state of Israel obviously has some powerful people behind it to be able change so many countries political leaders views on the subject.

So who benefits the most out of Israel being where it is?

Has the state of Israel played it's part or have things not even started yet in that area?

It's a pattern that has been used before,create a small country with conservative religious fanatics to go to war with your chosen country.

Northern Ireland is a prime example,Northern Ireland was not created for the benefit of the majority who live there,they are the foot soldiers and cannon fodder,Northern Ireland was created for a select few to benefit from.

This in my view is why Israel was created,although i am still unsure who the beneficiaries really are.

I am still at the point where i consider the Military/Banking Industrial Complex to be the main beneficiaries.

Did not the nazis help to bring about the very situation as regards israel ? :)
Food for thought tbh, without them there'd be no holocaust and no backing for everything thats gone on since.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 22:32 #17

  • humanspirit
  • humanspirit's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Expert Boarder
  • Rank4
  • Posts: 1736
  • Thank you received: 894
  • Karma: 21
andyh wrote:
humanspirit wrote:
I have always been anti nazi and anti lets blame the jews but the state of Israel obviously has some powerful people behind it to be able change so many countries political leaders views on the subject.

So who benefits the most out of Israel being where it is?

Has the state of Israel played it's part or have things not even started yet in that area?

It's a pattern that has been used before,create a small country with conservative religious fanatics to go to war with your chosen country.

Northern Ireland is a prime example,Northern Ireland was not created for the benefit of the majority who live there,they are the foot soldiers and cannon fodder,Northern Ireland was created for a select few to benefit from.

This in my view is why Israel was created,although i am still unsure who the beneficiaries really are.

I am still at the point where i consider the Military/Banking Industrial Complex to be the main beneficiaries.

Did not the nazis help to bring about the very situation as regards israel ? :)
Food for thought tbh, without them there'd be no holocaust and no backing for everything thats gone on since.

Yes i have thought about that andyh.

Quoting Wikipedia
"The Haavara (Transfer) Agreement was agreed to by the German government in 1933 to allow the Zionist movement, in the form of the Haavara company to transfer property from Germany to Palestine, for the sole purpose of encouraging Jewish emigration from Germany.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

So the German government specifically helped a Zionist organisation to move Jewish faith people out of Germany to Palestine for a price of £1000 per person?

Was £1000 a lot of money then?

Were the Jewish faith people left behind mainly poor Jewish faith people or non Zionist people?
naivety attracts evil and evil attracts naivety
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 22:35 #18

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
humanspirit wrote:
andyh wrote:
humanspirit wrote:
I have always been anti nazi and anti lets blame the jews but the state of Israel obviously has some powerful people behind it to be able change so many countries political leaders views on the subject.

So who benefits the most out of Israel being where it is?

Has the state of Israel played it's part or have things not even started yet in that area?

It's a pattern that has been used before,create a small country with conservative religious fanatics to go to war with your chosen country.

Northern Ireland is a prime example,Northern Ireland was not created for the benefit of the majority who live there,they are the foot soldiers and cannon fodder,Northern Ireland was created for a select few to benefit from.

This in my view is why Israel was created,although i am still unsure who the beneficiaries really are.

I am still at the point where i consider the Military/Banking Industrial Complex to be the main beneficiaries.

Did not the nazis help to bring about the very situation as regards israel ? :)
Food for thought tbh, without them there'd be no holocaust and no backing for everything thats gone on since.

Yes i have thought about that andyh.

Quoting Wikipedia
"The Haavara (Transfer) Agreement was agreed to by the German government in 1933 to allow the Zionist movement, in the form of the Haavara company to transfer property from Germany to Palestine, for the sole purpose of encouraging Jewish emigration from Germany.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

So the German government specifically helped a Zionist organisation to move Jewish faith people out of Germany to Palestine for a price of £1000 per person?

Was £1000 a lot of money then?

Were the Jewish faith people left behind mainly poor Jewish faith people or non Zionist people?

Yes they did and thats quite accurate yep.
Its just another one to add to the 'conspiracy' list I guess lol :p

£1000 would be a hell of a lot of money in 1933, you could buy houses for that much, fairly decent houses.

www.measuringworth.com/ppoweruk/result.p...933&year_result=2013

'Current data is only available till 2010. In 2010, £1000 0s 0d from 1933 is worth


£55,400.00 using the retail price index

£165,000.00 using average earnings'
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
Last Edit: 25 Feb 2013 22:37 by andyh.
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 23:33 #19

  • ..........
  • ..........'s Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 2786
  • Thank you received: 362
  • Karma: 0
Space Bandit wrote:
humanspirit wrote:

I am still at the point where i consider the Military/Banking Industrial Complex to be the main beneficiaries.

One war ends..... a new front is created. All the better for the MIC.

Yea, pretty much...
"The Great Liberator" aka #1 Anarchist
You must register to post here.

What changed their views from 1975-1991 25 Feb 2013 23:37 #20

  • ..........
  • ..........'s Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 2786
  • Thank you received: 362
  • Karma: 0
oioioi wrote:
humanspirit wrote:

So who benefits the most out of Israel being where it is?

Indeed.

Well I don't see a great benefit to Jews or Muslims from Israels existence (or not) beyond "My God is bigger than yours!" bragging rights. so I'm willing to concede it's got little to do with religion.

It's hard to say if it has more to do with money or religion when people will die for those "bragging rights".
"The Great Liberator" aka #1 Anarchist
You must register to post here.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Moderators: oioioi, psketti, batou
Time to create page: 0.185 seconds

Latest Members Blogs

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Prev Next

What is going on when it comes to 9-11 I…

The EPA (environmental protection agency) and OSHA took air samples in the days following September 11th, they reported that they found no excessive levels of asbestos contrary to other findings....

Read more

9-11 Eleven Years Later

9-11 Eleven Years Later

With the anniversary of September 11th literally just around the corner, unanswered questions still remain for families who lost loved ones during the tragic event, as well as from families...

Read more

Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass An…

Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass Animal Deaths

In 2008 the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to review a series of lower court rulings that restrict the United States Navy's use of sonar in submarine detection training exercises off...

Read more

Annual Server Target

Whether its 50 cents or five dollars, your donations are appreciated and help keep this community site running so we can all continue to enjoy using it.
This target is to meet our server cost for one year, June 2020 - May 2021, in USD.
$ 340 - Target
( £ 250 GBP )
donation thermometer
donation thermometer
$ 192 - Raised
( £ 140 GBP )
donation thermometer
56%
Most Recent Donation:
$122 USD on 4th Jan 2021
Bitcoin Address: bc1q0kazqya0nurfxtunxv807vm0m8852nnrrk8mj8
 
Ethereum Address: 0xe69915c80dd75df19f438d556267e04f932f057d
 
More Info: Donation options for TZ

No one is obliged to donate, please only donate what you can afford. Even the smallest amount helps. Being an active member is a positive contribution. Thank You.

TradeZone Latest

Visitors

Today6228
Yesterday8190
Week26914
Month51849
Total1150273

Your IP Address: 216.73.216.222 Your Browser and OS: Unknown - Unknown Friday, 28 August 2026 18:12

Who Is Online

Guests : 1055 guests online Members : No members online
© 2012 – 2021 Sanctum Zone | All rights reserved. This website is a place for people to express and discuss their views on the news and world events. DISCLAIMER: Please Note: Views expressed and submitted by contributors are their own personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions and beliefs of the Sanctum Zone website and its founder(s) , administrators , moderators , and any other website maintenance technicians, personnel and volunteers. Articles and messages posted on this website and forum are solely the opinion of their authors.

Login or Register

LOG IN

Register

User Registration
or Cancel