andyh wrote: Sounds like the typical usual CT stuff, nonsense while people are out there fighting a class war in Portugal, Italy, Greece Spain etc.

wake_up_bomb wrote: It's irrelevant, what is the significance of a promissory note in your opinion?

Debt is a medium of exchange, if you have some coconuts on you and I have nothing I will say iou; i have some lovely ripe melons, meet me here next week and I'll exchange them with you, there a debt has served as the basis of an exchange.

Is that not true, debt can serve as a medium of exchange?

Mike wrote:
Well...he got 25% of the countries vote.
No small achievement.

And like I said, its not really 'CT' stuff if its about whats actually realistically going on is it?

Mike wrote:
No because there is no tangible medium of limited quantity to have a value.
You can make promises from now til doomsday, doesn't mean you ever have to fulfil them, which is basically exactly what banks have just done.
Instead the customers have actually fulfilled the promises...

A medium of exchange has to have acknowledged set value by both parties involved and not only in the sense that one party is stupid enough to believe it...

Mike wrote: If you think it's irrelevant, good luck to you. I couldn't possibly be bothered to explain it. I've been over this stuff hundreds of times, it's not worth my while to do so any more. I've got other things to be doing. I hope the Marxist revolution works out well. I mean that sincerely. I'd love to see grassroots political organisations take over every European state and chuck the banksters out.

wake_up_bomb wrote:
Apparently he wants violent change rather than political change going by his class war stuff above, tbh I've nfi what he's on about
Beppe Grillo has achieved a huuuge political change and he's not happy with it, instead they should be out smashing windows and setting fire to wheelie bins perhaps?
Next thing we know he's going to become an 'anarchist' lol :p

wake_up_bomb wrote: Ok just point me to a link where you explain the relevance of a promissory note.
Once you've answered i'll ask someone else.

andyh wrote: If Beppe Grillo has achieved a "huge political change" you should be able to show me some evidence of it?
What has he changed?

Mike wrote: I'm sorry, mate, I really haven't got the time, this will have to be my last post for today, I just thought I'd pop back in and say 'hello'.andyh wrote: The way I see it is that we shouldn't underestimate the ability of the banking system and those that run it to assume a new shape, pull the wool over everyone's eyes, and start all over again. Like the antagonist out of Terminator 2. There may be some encouraging signs at the moment, and people are starting to realise what's going on, but I'm 100% certain that this has been anticipated and that many years of planning has gone into precisely how this will be responded to. And you can also be 100% certain that the patrician class of politicians will happily stand up on the political stage and profess to be doing certain things for the benefit of the people when actually it serves the totally opposite purpose. One plus point is that there is obviously a lot of genuine in-fighting going on at the moment, but ultimately these people know their business and their interests and they've been networking long enough to ensure that they only step on each other's toes too much.

Hopefully there can be some sort of genuine grassroots alternative, and hopefully the people involved can remain vigilant and not allow it to be co-opted and infiltrated, and hopefully it can happen on a wide enough scale (ie. across several countries) to effect real change, and hopefully the rest of the public won't fall for some sort of media smear campaign against it that scares them shitless. We'll see.

What will you be doing toward this end other than hoping "hopefully".
Will you be doing anything to create the situation you want to see?

Mike wrote:
The two main parties can no longer form a govt and he's even managed to get berlusconi to make the hilarious suggestion that the opposition join him to make a coalition.

He's also got the people to now understand that they can make a difference by not voting left/right all the damn time and he's even managed it with zero TV coverage.

The worlds media is still talking about it too...

By the way, if you think debt notes are OK then you think everything the bankers have done is OK.
If that doesn't give you a giant brainfart then nothing will.

andyh wrote: Me asking you to explain exactly what you think is wrong with Promissory notes, is not the same as me saying promissory notes are ok

Mike wrote:
Well now you know.
They lie cheat and fucking steal from everyone and do fuck all work for it and in the process totally fuck up the economy.
They then call it 'capitalism'.

I mean...can you imagine them actually having to work and compete for a living, jesus perish the thought

They, they, them.

Mike wrote:

Mike wrote:
The people who own the big and central banks Mike and those that support them...like yourself

andyh wrote: So we have one name "mike", me, who else?

Mike wrote:
Go back and collect every newspaper with every name of every person who owns the banks involved since 2007.
Then add 'mike' lol :p

andyh wrote: Not to worry I just found Rense.com and Jewwatch all the answers are there in easy to read format

Mike wrote:
jewwatch lol!
Theres plenty of bankers involved who are not jewish. There's british and french and spanish and italian ones, even japanese and chinese guys who are in on this game.

Basically anyone wealthy enough to have to make investments to avoid direct taxation is going to be involved directly or indirectly and perhaps with or without their knowledge.

The real culprit at the end of the day is the money itself. As I explained above it is possible to have a promissory note that is backed by gold/silver and/or a promissory note printed by the govt treasury at 0% interest.

If you remove the possibility of it being dicked with then it will not be dicked with. Those who oppose this would have to be by definition the enemy of the people.

Its also possible in theory to have an advanced economy with no money involved whatsoever but it needs scientific proof through experimentation. I expect such experimentation will show areas that need to be tweaked and adjusted to make it work.
Once it is shown to scientifically work then the world leaders would not have a leg to stand on against it.