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TOPIC: splitting good and evil

splitting good and evil 24 Apr 2013 04:05 #1

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I was reading various articles on psychology today and this particular one got me thinking.

m.psychologytoday.com/em/123046

It is not a very long article but like I said it got my wheels turning. In fiction I hate it when the bad guys have no good in them and vice versa. I think it is the same in real life too. It is easy to disagree with a person on certain key topics and decide that they are evil. The same probably goes for experiences. Obviously losing a limb or something is bad but you can also get positives from the experience.

Have I lost you yet.

I think we all have the capacity to do things that are evil. I think it is down to how we place that in our head. Justification to ourselves. Of course there is justifying a small lie and then there is killing a crowd of people but I think it is the same principle.

I don't like to speak for others but I think of myself as good and I see others as good or bad or good turned bad etc. I personally think there are grey areas in between or indifference. Perhaps people don't register.

It is an interesting topic(to me anyway) and I am sure I could change my mind if I kept thinking about it but it is late and I am on the internet so it became a topic.
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splitting good and evil 24 Apr 2013 11:49 #2

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Interesting read ty :)

I always try to look for the good in people and don't really subscribe to the idea of 'evil people' as such - I think that everyone has the potential to carry out an act that is utterly horrific. There are things i have done in my past which I am utterly ashamed of but don't consider myself to be 'evil'. I think that throwing 'evil' as a reason for certain acts is convenient as that is the end of it then - the person or persons who committed the act is evil no need to look any deeper then that.

'evil' assumes that the person is devoid of any goodness. I have an ex who I would describe as a good man but he was not good to me in the final years of our relationship. Some of the things he said and did could probably be described as 'evil' but that imo does not make him an 'evil' person.

Governments will describe those pitted against them as 'evil' whilst others will describe governments as 'evil' - others think money or drugs or certain music 'evil' - can inanimate objects be evil? or is it the way in which people behave in order to posses such items or once in possession of such items 'evil'?
Sometimes, if you stand on the bottom rail of a bridge and lean over to watch the river slipping slowly away beneath you, you will suddenly know everything there is to be known.

“Just living is not enough, one must have sunshine, freedom, and a little flower”
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splitting good and evil 24 Apr 2013 17:41 #3

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I wonder, talking about your ex's deeds, how he saw those actions in his head. Did he justify them to himself somehow you know?
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splitting good and evil 24 Apr 2013 21:08 #4

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at the time i guess he felt justified - since we broke up he has unreservedly apologised and we are the friends we should have been
Sometimes, if you stand on the bottom rail of a bridge and lean over to watch the river slipping slowly away beneath you, you will suddenly know everything there is to be known.

“Just living is not enough, one must have sunshine, freedom, and a little flower”
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splitting good and evil 24 Apr 2013 21:20 #5

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It is all very interesting because some evil deeds you can never come back from in our society. My wife does a lot of research for her own interests in child killers(school shooters mostly) and she is interested in the psychology of it. Noting that many of these horrible events are the work of minds that are not fully developed. Once you shoot up your school though I don`t see much chance of redemption in the eyes of society.

I saw a really good documentary once on Kip Kinkel who shot his parents then went to his school and shot some of his classmates. I felt really sorry for him. Apparently he gets a fair bit of fan mail in prison but I imagine even to his "fans" they perhaps see him in a certain way which he can never escape even if they appear friendly towards him.

I am sure I have done things "out of character" that I justified in some way, blaming provocation or outside pressures etc but I know that some of the bad things I have done were just bad and I did them knowing that they were "bad" but i still see myself as "good".

I think everybody should try and see the good in each other and attempt to understand the bad. It is all a process of understanding the world.
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splitting good and evil 24 Apr 2013 22:41 #6

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i-baster wrote:

Have I lost you yet.
No, this makes complete sense to me and is one of the few topics I agree wholeheartedly on and have pondered over many a time. Without "evil" there is no "good" and so whomever so believes that evil should be eradicated and good accepted has an illogical belief. Many religions have this teaching without seeing their own hypocrisy. One cannot exist without the other. Therefore, someone or something cannot be wholly evil or good.
Many people believe children are born innocent (and by innocent without "evil") yet I remember experiencing "evil" thoughts that were normal to me. Only when I heard other people condemning them did I begin to feel guilty.
Call me by any name, any way it's all the same.
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splitting good and evil 24 Apr 2013 23:13 #7

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Night_Gaunt wrote:
i-baster wrote:

Have I lost you yet.
No, this makes complete sense to me and is one of the few topics I agree wholeheartedly on and have pondered over many a time. Without "evil" there is no "good" and so whomever so believes that evil should be eradicated and good accepted has an illogical belief. Many religions have this teaching without seeing their own hypocrisy. One cannot exist without the other. Therefore, someone or something cannot be wholly evil or good.
Many people believe children are born innocent (and by innocent without "evil") yet I remember experiencing "evil" thoughts that were normal to me. Only when I heard other people condemning them did I begin to feel guilty.

This was a problem I had/have when doing Tai Chi and the whole Yin Yang. What is the point of spiritual growth if it just means the negative force will have to manifest elsewhere? It makes logical sense to me but doesn't "feel" right as a conclusion.
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splitting good and evil 24 Apr 2013 23:31 #8

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oioioi wrote:
Night_Gaunt wrote:
i-baster wrote:

Have I lost you yet.
No, this makes complete sense to me and is one of the few topics I agree wholeheartedly on and have pondered over many a time. Without "evil" there is no "good" and so whomever so believes that evil should be eradicated and good accepted has an illogical belief. Many religions have this teaching without seeing their own hypocrisy. One cannot exist without the other. Therefore, someone or something cannot be wholly evil or good.
Many people believe children are born innocent (and by innocent without "evil") yet I remember experiencing "evil" thoughts that were normal to me. Only when I heard other people condemning them did I begin to feel guilty.

This was a problem I had/have when doing Tai Chi and the whole Yin Yang. What is the point of spiritual growth if it just means the negative force will have to manifest elsewhere? It makes logical sense to me but doesn't "feel" right as a conclusion.
I'm more of the opinion "spiritual" growth occurs through the interplay of yin and yang, negative and positive, it takes time and experience, many people's actions called "good or evil" are motivated by their experience...The reason it may not "feel" right, is that the heart's an idealist ;)
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splitting good and evil 24 Apr 2013 23:56 #9

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The murder of the old lady is only evil because the old lady is seen as good. The old lady was good because she didn't ever murder anybody.
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splitting good and evil 24 Apr 2013 23:58 #10

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Mike wrote:
oioioi wrote:
Night_Gaunt wrote:
i-baster wrote:

Have I lost you yet.
No, this makes complete sense to me and is one of the few topics I agree wholeheartedly on and have pondered over many a time. Without "evil" there is no "good" and so whomever so believes that evil should be eradicated and good accepted has an illogical belief. Many religions have this teaching without seeing their own hypocrisy. One cannot exist without the other. Therefore, someone or something cannot be wholly evil or good.
Many people believe children are born innocent (and by innocent without "evil") yet I remember experiencing "evil" thoughts that were normal to me. Only when I heard other people condemning them did I begin to feel guilty.

This was a problem I had/have when doing Tai Chi and the whole Yin Yang. What is the point of spiritual growth if it just means the negative force will have to manifest elsewhere? It makes logical sense to me but doesn't "feel" right as a conclusion.
I'm more of the opinion "spiritual" growth occurs through the interplay of yin and yang, negative and positive, it takes time and experience, many people's actions called "good or evil" are motivated by their experience...The reason it may not "feel" right, is that the heart's an idealist ;)

Thanks...I think :hmm: but I was thinking also on the large scale.
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splitting good and evil 25 Apr 2013 00:01 #11

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I think this is quite relevant:
Because of the concern for abuse of compulsory admission and involuntary treatment, the question of how to assess mental competence is a topic of ongoing debate. The literature seems to focus on empirical approaches, thereby overlooking the lack of conceptual clearness. This article describes an anthropological reflection on the concept of competence. Contrary to the current approach within medical ethics, this conceptualization of competence is based on positive autonomy. In this article, the question of mental competence is linked to the patient’s ability to respond to a given situation in coherence with what he values in life. Based on Frankfurt’s real self view to responsibility, this approach is further elaborated. The human capacity for self-reflection, including the power to act upon it, plays a crucial role in this view. If a patient lacks this capacity or if he otherwise fails to conform his (first-order) will to his deeper motives and values, his will does not seem to reflect his real self and he cannot be deemed fully responsible for it. As such, mental incompetence could be considered an impairment of one’s capacity for responsibility. In the interaction between the physician and the patient, more attention should be paid to fostering this capacity instead of the assessment thereof.
link
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splitting good and evil 25 Apr 2013 00:08 #12

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i-baster wrote:
The murder of the old lady is only evil because the old lady is seen as good.

No. Whether she's good or bad is of no relevance. The 'evil' is in the act of taking her life. Surely.
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splitting good and evil 25 Apr 2013 00:14 #13

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psketti wrote:
i-baster wrote:
The murder of the old lady is only evil because the old lady is seen as good.

No. Whether she's good or bad is of no relevance. The 'evil' is in the act of taking her life. Surely.

If he took the life of a serial nonce...?
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splitting good and evil 25 Apr 2013 00:20 #14

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oioioi wrote:
psketti wrote:
i-baster wrote:
The murder of the old lady is only evil because the old lady is seen as good.

No. Whether she's good or bad is of no relevance. The 'evil' is in the act of taking her life. Surely.

If he took the life of a serial nonce...?

Different ballgame.
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splitting good and evil 25 Apr 2013 00:23 #15

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psketti wrote:
oioioi wrote:
psketti wrote:
i-baster wrote:
The murder of the old lady is only evil because the old lady is seen as good.

No. Whether she's good or bad is of no relevance. The 'evil' is in the act of taking her life. Surely.

If he took the life of a serial nonce...?

Different ballgame.

Same act.

That's i-b's point.
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splitting good and evil 25 Apr 2013 00:31 #16

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oioioi wrote:
psketti wrote:
oioioi wrote:
psketti wrote:
i-baster wrote:
The murder of the old lady is only evil because the old lady is seen as good.

No. Whether she's good or bad is of no relevance. The 'evil' is in the act of taking her life. Surely.

If he took the life of a serial nonce...?

Different ballgame.

Same act.

That's i-b's point.

I guess I'm coming more from the 'result' angle then.

The act is indeed the same but there's a world of difference between some freak killing old Mrs Groggins for her pension money and someone deciding to finish off some fuck that had been part of a pedo ring.
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splitting good and evil 25 Apr 2013 00:38 #17

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psketti wrote:
oioioi wrote:
psketti wrote:
oioioi wrote:
psketti wrote:
i-baster wrote:
The murder of the old lady is only evil because the old lady is seen as good.

No. Whether she's good or bad is of no relevance. The 'evil' is in the act of taking her life. Surely.

If he took the life of a serial nonce...?

Different ballgame.

Same act.

That's i-b's point.

I guess I'm coming more from the 'result' angle then.

The act is indeed the same but there's a world of difference between some freak killing old Mrs Groggins for her pension money and someone deciding to finish off some fuck that had been part of a pedo ring.

But can one be 'evil' and the other 'justice' when they are so similar an act?
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splitting good and evil 25 Apr 2013 00:51 #18

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In my opinion, absolutely.
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splitting good and evil 25 Apr 2013 00:53 #19

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oioioi wrote:
Night_Gaunt wrote:
i-baster wrote:

Have I lost you yet.
No, this makes complete sense to me and is one of the few topics I agree wholeheartedly on and have pondered over many a time. Without "evil" there is no "good" and so whomever so believes that evil should be eradicated and good accepted has an illogical belief. Many religions have this teaching without seeing their own hypocrisy. One cannot exist without the other. Therefore, someone or something cannot be wholly evil or good.
Many people believe children are born innocent (and by innocent without "evil") yet I remember experiencing "evil" thoughts that were normal to me. Only when I heard other people condemning them did I begin to feel guilty.

This was a problem I had/have when doing Tai Chi and the whole Yin Yang. What is the point of spiritual growth if it just means the negative force will have to manifest elsewhere? It makes logical sense to me but doesn't "feel" right as a conclusion.
Spiritual growth is to embrace both yin and yang. If you choose one you are neglecting the other and you will never "go" anywhere. This is why many new age groups are in the wrong when they tell you to focus only on the positive. The negative will seek more and more for your attention if you drown it out. It's a paradox, really.
Call me by any name, any way it's all the same.
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splitting good and evil 25 Apr 2013 00:57 #20

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Personally I think they are both evil acts. One is just more socially acceptable. Nobody will argue too much if an "evil" person is brutally murdered but we don't necessarily know all the evil that the old dear is behind. That is essentially how people justify the death penalty. It is an evil act against an evil person so it cancels out the evil. But does it really?
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