diamondgeezer wrote:
While listening to Frank Zappa at the same time I hope!

With Coldplay on mute

Space Bandit wrote:
With possibly some early Floyd thrown into the combination too.....could be an interesting mix...

Well I'm Scottish and yes, proud to be Scottish and quite patrioc and will be voting yes to Scottish Independence

Well said dawn.

& I for one fully support the Scots desire for independence from Westminster rule. But I'd be very wary of some of your leader's motives when it comes to the EU.

diamondgeezer wrote:
So basically you cannot quote me to substantiate your claim.



Otherwise..

Quote me or it did not happen.

And if one is going to lend ones voice in support of a party, one should at least google them.

In fact I credit you with at least that much intelligence. Hence why I am skeptical about your lack of knowledge previous to my post highlighting the ED's connections to the far right.

IOW I don't buy it.

Everyone should be wary of any politicians motive

I do actually think there is a good chance of Scottish Independence, especially if the Tories are in power when the vote happens

Showing minor passing interest in a party purely due to its anti-EU stance doesn't equate to ''lending ones voice in support'' of it mikey....

Yawn....

diamondgeezer wrote:
You didn't even google a wiki? And yet you knew all about their anti-EU stance?

c'mon! the other one has bells on

diamondgeezer wrote: Calm down with the shouting please mate.
I would ask them all the same question.
Why are you 'proud'?

Cultures are in a constant state of flux, always have been and always will be.
You mentioned yourself the Chinese and Indian Cuisine integration.
You've omitted the obvious, far greater, American influence on UK culture.
Language changes constantly, not only because of external inclusions but also because of our own corruptions, deviations, and complete invention, (See a Mr William Shakespeare for example).

All you have testified to so far is the benefits of extending and incorporating 'alien' elements into your culture.
Once you accept that, then you should understand that Englishness, Scottishness, Polishness etc is nothing special in, and of, itself.

I have never been to Albania but I'd place a huge bet that the people there require food, drink with access to shelter and hygiene for a minimally comfortable life. Same as English people, Slovaks, Filipinos, Tibetans...... you get the idea.
So I'm asking what unique traits does being born within the lines of a map bestow upon you?
Those traits which you would feel a pride for?

Can you throw a boulder further because of your birthplace?
Do you write sonnets with ease because you lived within the same geographical boundaries as the Bard?
Are you proud of the notable achievements of these fellow nationals?
Peter Sutcliffe
Jack the Ripper
Fred and Rose West
Dennis Nilsen
Harold Shipman
Jimmy Saville
Mick Philpot

I'm sure you get the idea ...
Are you a kickass archer because the longbow was invented in England?

You are English by accident.
You get no extra powers simply by being born anywhere.

How true the phrase that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
It never can withstand scrutiny. Pure illusionary propaganda bs.

dawnbreak wrote: I have to ask girl .........

Why are you proud?
What are you proud of?
What does patriotism really mean?
What convinces you that Scotland can stand on it's own feet atm?
Finance projections
Trade Agreements
Infrastructure
Defence agreements
Currency
Taxation levels
Retention of the Monarchy
Membership of the EU

What have you seen that covers all these areas enough to secure your confident vote?
These are the nuts and bolts of day-to-day management and sustenance of a nation.

feather wrote:
Great post. Well said . And I would like to add that the nationalism is very much in the individual nationalist's image. It is the nationalist that gets to tell us all what is and what is not "decent ordinary English" etc. IME this seems to mean "whatever I am comfortable and familiar with".

IT's pure idealism to speculate Britain would be better off out of the EU.
Britain previously decided under Thatcher that we would retain the pound, some say this saved us from the worst effects but others say it is partly the cause of the economic crash, while Europe was regulated and trying to bring under regulation the banking sector, the UK capitalized on the flee from the continent by profiteering multinationals

What we've seen for the past 10 years with the EU is the political structure of Europe often headed by Germany running around picking up the broken pieces left in the wake of the Anglo American Neo Liberal approach to markets and banking in the last 30 years.

Doesn't everyone have their own cultural identity, language, customs, etc? How can we keep those things without being nationalist?
Say everyone in your area moved away, and a lot of people from other countries moved in, and they kept their own culture, customs, and language, what would you do? move away? learn their language, etc?

Maybe I'm thinking about it in really simple terms I don't do these kinds of discussions really, I don't think too much about stuff like nationalism, politics, all that crap

Will the world of the future be one language, one people? It kind of sounds boring Isn't the very act of speaking a language being nationalist?

Can we erase borders, but keep our identity?

mikey mikey wrote: Absolutely.
It parallels the American "True" or "Real" American.

Seriously wtf is a "real American"? (apart from the obvious "native people" response).
The strength of it's culture is it's diversity.

irrepressible wrote: irrepressible wrote:
Yeah you do. Butter wouldn't melt, eh? You are making the usual pro nationalist points and hoping to pass it off as apolitical "common sense".

Well fuck nationalists. They don't preserve a culture, they stagnate it.

If you're civil to me mikey I'll be civil to you. I'm just asking questions. My questions are usually based on a kind of spontaneous flow of logic, or something like that, based on limited knowledge, or snippets of stuff I've picked up.

I don't do these kinds of discussions often, I should probably have said I am a man born of the Earth, a collection of particles blasted out from creation, the source of all things, I'm just trying to understand it all

irrepressible wrote:
I have a questiion: is offerring the preposterous notion that to speak one's native tongue is to be nationalistic really fucking dumb or just fucking dumb?

Just a question.

Maybe it is dumb mikey, maybe it is

irrepressible wrote:
It is one thing to maintain the language of Catalan through the decades of Franco's oppression and it is another to say "Well if you speak English you must be a nationalist, innit?"

So yes. Really dumb.