Nice title...

Ab Origine wrote:
I've always been creative.

For me, andy is right that currently, we are forced into having a job. I know people who have bought land and started working toward self sufficiency. The State booted them off their own land...Even the benefits system is being dismantled.

Ofc, any animal must exert themselves to survive. They must act to find food and shelter.
This is not to say that the only way is having a job and using money.
Equally being against the money paradigm does not mean you refuse to put the 'work' in.

knobmeup wrote:
More specifically...a job you do not necessarily want to do, nor the job you are naturally gifted at doing because invariably it doesn't make enough money.
You can only survive off the land in very wild and remote areas, try it in the UK or Ireland and you'll get thrown in the clink or fined etc for 'trespass'. If you have kids then you will have them forcibly removed from you for 'neglect'

andyh wrote:
Lot's of people don't actually have jobs, those that do choose to, perhaps you don't like that , perhaps with good reason, perhaps the other options don't seem as attractive ,but you are not forced into it ,it is not slavery, it is not created by money or "profit motive" but the reality of the physical existence you are in.

Reptired wrote:
Money has nothing to do with physical reality
You can opt to do all sorts of things, just don't expect to be able to do it for long is all, you'll either end up dead or behind bars.
Unless you're above the law in which case its all of no consequence whatsoever, you don't actually need to do any work either so phsyical reality doesn't even come into it in that instance.

andyh wrote:
Of course it does, somebody has to generate or gather these resources in Reality.
You could be a "slave" to reality and gather your resources, you could make someone else a Slave to gather them for you, there's really not any other options.

Reptired wrote: Can you give some examples please so I know what ways of life you're referring to?

Reptired wrote:
Resources are not money

TVP is a resource based economy remember? Did you think I was arguing a case for not gathering resources? :p

knobmeup wrote:
Everyone who is not forced into it, probably pretty much everyone you've ever met.

andyh wrote:
We're onto TVP now?
So how does making money Illegal change the necessities of Physical World?

Reptired wrote:
Since when does money have anything to do with the necessities of the real world?
We were always on about TVP btw as mentioned in the other thread that this is not

andyh wrote:
Why are you so concerned with money then?

Reptired wrote: That doesn't make any sense in the context of your statement and my subsequent question...
I wanted examples of these people that don't have jobs innit.

knobmeup wrote:
I thought you meant people that do have jobs sorry.
You know what unemployment is for example, right?

Reptired wrote:
Because it is a flawed system.
Its self evident that what humans actually need is an economic system, not necessarily money and in fact in the truest sense, money is not an economic system because its not 'economic'

Reptired wrote:
The amusing conversations you can have sometimes :p

No worries, easy misunderstanding.

The unemployed? That's your prime example of people who survive without jobs?
Not the best example is it...Especially in the age of workfare, compulsory job clubs etc..
Do you also mean the disabled and infirm?

knobmeup wrote:
It's a perfect example.
Everyone who does not work is not forced to work.
They cannot be forced to work - because they are not working.
This is just basic logic, it's IN the language,my opinion or your feelings about it are completely irrelevant, it is objectively True.

"The law of identity states: "that every thing is the same with itself and different from another": A is A and not ~A."
A is A and not non A

"In logic, the Law of Non-contradiction states, in the words of Aristotle, that:
"one cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_thought