Gilly wrote:
That's outrageous, Gilly. I'll hazard a guess that the only reason this has hit msm is to serve as a 'cautionary' tale, yet again.

As thoreau pointed out, there's a bit of hysteria attached to the whole thing which many won't even consider.

It's still disgusting though. As others have said, they'll get it one way or t'other.

I can only imagine that the whole process will get easier for them as things become ever more digitalised.

Frog wrote:
Damn right its down to peoples belief, I've stated that like 1000 times on DIF about numerous things
Are you gonna go Breivik on 'em then?

Unfortunately that does not fit the description of a 'constitution' lol

• It establishes or constitutes the system of government and is thus not part of it
• It involves an authority outside and above the order it establishes
• It is a form of law superior
• It is entrenched

Where does any of this come covered under any UK documentation? :p

andyh wrote:
John Bingley explains it concisely and in detail so why rehash his work?

andyh wrote:
I'm not all the way through yet and I will confess to not understanding a good part of it... but according to the bloke in this link of frogs, the documentation is all there if you know where to look
Frog wrote:

.... jinx froggy

I'm sorry but magna carta is NOT a constitution.

The UK needs a constitution alright but don't think for one minute that its a constitution.
It was created before the UK had a government lol!

What do you think was one of the earliest acts?

'On 11 February 1542, the first Royal Commission was issued directing others to assent to an Act on the monarch's behalf. This method was used for the remarkable purpose of sparing Henry VIII from having to attend in person to assent to the Bill for the attainder and consequent execution of Queen Katherine Howard.

This device of assenting by Royal Commission was employed on other occasions and since 1854, every Act has in fact been passed in this way.'

A commission is to give permission to carry out an order

The wording of magna carta by the way specifically states free men, it does not include serfs.
Free men back then were quite different people to 'free men' now

A constitution would be worded quite differently and state clear boundaries authority cannot cross.
Whats really needed is not just 'a constitution' but a GOOD constitution.
To this day imho not a single nation on Earth has such a thing.

Until the laws which govern us lie within us we will always be subservient.

psketti wrote:

John Hurst Magna Carta Ex Cop with long service.

andyh wrote:
Did you actually watch, listen and comprehend what was contained in the presentation by John Bingley? At what point is it claimed that the Magna Carta is 'The Constitution'? it is one of the founding documents which form the British Constitution. If people fail to recognise that and are unwilling to stand by it they deserve to be treated as a surf. That doesn't mean that their weakness should be allowed to pull the rest of us down to their level. Just because some people lack the ability to determine right from wrong, and can't apply simple logic and reason doesn't mean they are right or the situation is acceptable.

Frog wrote:
I've watched some of it, not all.
Again, there is no constitution, it would be a single document with precedence over all other laws.
The law is whatever parliament passes and whatever judges decide to enforce, its as simple as that.

If you think you can drive a car in the uk without road tax, plates, insurance or a seat belt on by all means try it. The end result will be the same no matter what you say or point to in court

At the end of the day the reason why the law is as it is, is because people put up with it.
If you really wanted change, you would kill for it.

andyh wrote:
Humm well forgive be for ignoring your input. I suspected that you were spouting bollocks without having watched the presentation, which is why I went to the trouble of adding each individual part, in an effort to save you the effort of navigating each part unaided.

Really. No Act can stand in opposition to the will of the people without a threat or act of violence and or loss at the hands of the state. who is serving who? If people stopped thinking how they have been taught to think and applied logic and reason the State would fold over night!
That kind of contradicts your previous statement while endorses my view, and yet you fail to accept the reality of the situation. The legal system and state only has the power we allow it end of story. There are two choices...draw a line or fain ignorance.

The Magna Carta- An Interview With Ken Clarke

---

CALLING ON ANYONE IN THE MANCHESTER AREA

---

Roger Hayes was visited in prison this morning by Danny Bamping, who took an
affidavit from Roger in which he makes it clear he received no summons or
invitation to the hearing which resulted in the arrest warrant being issued.
Roger also makes it clear he was given no opportunity to speak at the
unlisted secret court hearing - a hearing which lasted just long enough to
the judge to utter the sentence.
Danny and his team will submit an application for Habeas Corpus tomorrow
morning, at the High Court in Manchester, which can be found in the new
"Civil Justice Centre".
The application will be heard under "Supreme Court Order 54".
The hearing is at 10am, and we would like to ask that as many people as
possible turn up to witness the application and support Danny and his team.
Roger (and we) would also like to express his/our appreciation for the
fantastic support.

Nice one Nirvana.

I'm not far from Manchester, but can't get there today though I'd like to. Sorry to pass the buck to others to do the thinking (my brain's out of sync at the minute) but can anyone suggest who to ring / email / write to, to lodge a formal complaint about these events?

Secret UK arrest victims case brought up in the EU Parliament MEP Gerard Batten 4th July 2012

Other links:

https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/formal-complaint-fullfactorg

https://hellaheaven-ana.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/complaint-about-no-coverage-by-bbc-of.html

Contact Info:
Merseyside Police Tel: 101 local or +44 (0)151 709 6010 in UK.
Liverpool Prison Tel: +44 (0)151 530 4000
Crimestoppers (UK only) Tel: 0800 555 111

If you would like to write to Roger with your support, you can write to him at:
HMP Liverpool, 68 Hornby Road Liverpool L9 3DF
His prisoner number is: A8953CP

Frog wrote:
Really...just get some coffee and read it again.
Yes I'm with you on everything except the misguided notion that hundreds of documents are one document OK?

andyh wrote:
Hardly misguided seeing as it has evolved as a result of historical events. Where did the hundreds of documents fallacy suddenly appear from?

New countries like America have a constitution ratified in a single document simply because it was born out of mature political systems and ideologies. The US constitution draws much from the various documents which comprise our constitution.

Other countries with single documents have been born out of revolution and or invasions which took place in relatively recent times by comparison.

Each layer of documentation simply sits along side the founding documents as each subsequent document can't be enacted without the preceding agreement/s. I fail to see what part of it is hard to grasp, given a basic knowledge of British history and recent judicial decisions, which establish, evidence and accept the legal authority of these documents. Anyone mildly aware of global politics and the total corruption of the British political, judicial and financial institutions would have some idea why the State would hide and deny the existence of our constitution and common law.

Frog wrote:
If you look up the definition of common law you will find that it is simply law of precedence until a judge decides otherwise.
A single document outlining decent human rights is not a fallacy I'm afraid
It simply does not exist, period, lol.

There's no need to get so wound up about it.

YES I agree the UK needs one.

YES I agree that the govt are wankers.

YES I agree that they hide as much info as they can.

But NO, I do not think that magna carta 'common law' or any of these other stupid ancient british pieces of shit law are worth tuppence. Nor would I want to abide by such documentation that is completely irrelevant.

For the UK to have a constitution the people must first of all want it and be knowledgeable about it.
Neither of those 2 conditions exist yet and the reason why is because its not on a single piece of paper trumping all other law is it?

As oi says, we'll only be free when we're governing ourselves but we haven't managed to govern government yet in the UK so I fail to see how some useless rules hundreds of years old either side of parliament have any relevance whatsoever?

What we need is a violent revolution to bring about such a single document that trumps all others, then maybe we can work on self governance later on.

andyh wrote:
Still never watched it all then.

This is a silly argument.

You're both right and you're both wrong from my understanding. The collection of documents, magna carta, declaration of rights etc, do represent a constitution by some definition. They don't represent one by others.

It's a distraction from the basic truth though that it matters not one jot! One can go into Lawful rebellion, issue all the liens of freemanry and quote 'law' till the cows come home. It's been proven time and time again that the Gov and the judges will simply ignore it when it comes down to the nitty gritty. There are aspects of this stuff that do have pragmatic value. This much is true and I've used some of those aspects myself to good effect.

However:

It matters not whether there is or isn't a constitution. Why? Because the majority are as yet seemingly incapable of realising how they are controlled. They're therefore incapable of doing anything about it. Oioioi was right several posts ago and that is the crux of all this. Whilst we have this system of government, fat cats will sip their cream, children will be impoverished and old ladies will spend winter in one room.

The entire system needs trashing, completely. All of the 'constitution' documents included. That will only happen when critical mass of awareness has been reached and people take responsibility for themselves. So let's get on with that I say rather than arguing over irrelevancies.