Guevarista wrote:

Guevarista wrote:
I'm not 'opposed' to the class struggle, I just see it as endless until people get a slap in the face wake up call is all.
Is knowing Proudhon or Marx somehow going to stop you getting a brainchip?

thread failure. time to go home. i got the biggest dick round here.

dubmeup wrote: Why, is it making you think?
Just to clarify: running a car minimizes your cooperation with the state?

batou wrote:


LOL!

batou wrote: I personally think this thread has been a great success so far, it got derailed a while back by andyh, so I just wondered if he's read any Marx and what was his opinion on the things he read?

I have definitely learned from this thread anyway :Could almost have come from Gordon Brown.

Guevarista wrote:
If you think Gordon Brown is in favour of 60 million self employed people all paying bugger all tax then yes..sure..LOL!!

andyh wrote: Exact same rational though isn't it

Guevarista wrote:
What exact same rationale are you talking about?
Sure Brown supports business but he doesn't support the entire population of Britian going into business or him and all his cronies are out of a job. What would possibly be rational about that rationale?

Its hilarious watching you scratch your head tbh.

"If you can't beat em join em"
andyh

Guevarista wrote:
He would not encourage 60 million people to do it.
A small handful of select people who they consider an in group but not you and 60 million normal people from working class backgrounds. The last thing the elite want is 60 million self sufficient people...perish the fucking thought lol.

andyh wrote: No you're right the elite hate it when the people compete amongst themselves for private interest and a small percentage of the actual private wealth.

Guevarista wrote:

So andyh is it factual to conclude that you have never read a work of Marxism and your only input to this thread from post #9 onwards was to derail the original topic?

Guevarista wrote:
Have you never read a book besides Karl Marx and your only input to this entire forum is complete and utter commie horseshit?

andyh wrote:
yes because brainchips dont exist , in fact reading an enid blyton novel could stop you getting a brainchip ,
still think im a nwo shill or ist an extremist i forget .
you can take the poster out of the dif but you cant take the dif out of the poster

you say you dont pay tax yet in your explanation you clearly do so why pretend not to is it a game your playing ,
marx himself said democracy will lead to socialism its a natural progression 60 million self employed is a novel idea
what would that mean exactly anarcho syndicalism requires committees , er see where this is heading andyh ,
full employment under committee supervision sounds like ahem marx`s idea but retains a class structure which would require policing much like the current system of capitalism so how is that not a status quo ,
have you read marx ?

dubmeup wrote:
Sorry Dub, I wasn't meaning to have a go. It's just anarchist politics have been part of my life for a very long time and it's a subject I ascribe some seriousness to and it felt like you were just making a dig.

The reference to 'fighting elites' involved a simple observation that anarcho-syndicalists fought in the Spanish civil war - it was a just an observation related to a minor point of no significance to the thread. There was no call to violence. Otherwise I dunno what you're thinking - after all lots of people want to 'fight the elite' without necessarily meaning violence.

I actually wish student union bars still did talk about this kind of stuff. From the limited amount I've seen it's more common for them to be discussing where they're going to be getting pissed. I think it was better when universities were actually full of idealistic young people who wanted to change the world.
Yes there is the revolutionary wankfest phenomenon - don't get me started on people I know of who spend hours planning the revolution that isn't happening in meticulous detail and (and this has actually happened) spent all night discussing the storming revolutionary act of what to put into a letter to the Guardian. On the other hand, I think people have lost the spirit they had back in the day of sitting down and discussing in depth what these ideas mean and how they relate to them. Because political ideology is ultimately what informs your actions. Saying 'it's about taking responsibility' is a charged statement and you could debate for hours what that actually means. Talk is not good without action, but action is no good withouit some idea of why you're doing it.

And I love radical blokes with huge beards from the late 19th and early 20th century ok? (not in a gay way).

andyh wrote:

andyh wrote:
How is being self employed being "self-sufficient"? The self-employed are entirely reliant on the existing capitalist system. It's not like Tom and Barbara in The Good Life.

And the government encourage small business because they see it as entrepeneurial. They know damn well just like everyone else you're never going to have a country of 60 million self-employed people. All that would happen is the more successful people would hire the people whose less successful businsses have folded and you're back to square one.

And the self employed are often restricted in what they can do because the big boys win. Self employed traders have been going nuts about the big supermarkets moving into my town because they know they're fucked if they do.

Open All Hours will never the revolution be.