dogsmilk wrote:
You don't think I'm stupid enough to pay tax do you ffs lol?
Its not exactly hard to do if you don't make a million quid or more out of it a year.
I collect tax for the state in the form of VAT but I don't actually pay it jesus what a preposterous idea omfg lol

dogsmilk wrote:
Well anarcho-syndicalism is just the union movement and labour party innit? LMFAO!!

andyh wrote:
What do you do with the money you would otherwise be paying in tax? Are you saying you approve of the superwealthy dodging tax because that's exactly what you do too?

Self -employed people I know in the UK may avoid paying some tax, but they do pay tax.

andyh wrote:
I have said no such thing. If you're saying that, you can't have been paying any attention to what has been aid.

dogsmilk wrote:
Yep, you blatantly have. Unless you want to backtrack on what you have said thus far.
Anarcho-syndicalism obviously is just unions right? Its got nothing to do with ownership of the means of production, go back to bed people dogsmilk is in control.

andyh wrote: Are there any circumstances under which you would pay "tax", ie make contributions to a common fund as an anarchist?

dogsmilk wrote:
Then they're stupid idiots.
I spend the money on 'expenses' and keep receipts for it, its not exactly rocket science.
General Electric in one tax year iirc took 10 billion dollars in profits and actually got paid 1.1billion off the govt in addition.
Does it bother you?

Guevarista wrote:
Eh?
I have to pay VAT returns...after I've deducted what I've paid in VAT of course. /troll grin.

andyh wrote:
Go back and read the thread.

Hells Bells Andy - you're the only person who's even mentioned the Labour Party - for no apparent reason. How they came into it I really have no idea.
And I spent ages trying to explain "workers union" does not mean "the unions" And I explicitly said it is revolutionary anarchism which seeks to overthrow capitalism and the state which by definition means taking control of the means of production - which you took issue with!.

dogsmilk wrote:
The unions make up the labour party thats why they get mentioned.
If the workers union is not a standard union like unison etc, then what are such unions? What do they do? Do they have a subscription? Do they have ballots? Whats the difference between control of the means of production and ownership of the means of production and why do you think control is better than ownership? How do you overthrow a state by just having this thing called a 'workers union'? Does it involve thousands of armed people or summat?

andyh wrote:
So with 'expenses' in inverted commas, it's basically just personal gain...right?

I'm not moralising - it's not like I've given all my worldly possessions to the poor or something. I'm just interested. Because you seem to think it's somehow radical. When it's just a downscaled version of this -

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18944097

Of course what you said about GEC bothers me.

andyh wrote:
So you contribute £x amount to the government in the form of VAT and then claim the same amount back?
I'm asking whether you disagree with how taxes are distributed, or to the idea of a centralization of resources in general.

dogsmilk wrote: Of course yep.
Not really, a scaled down version of that would be me moving a smaller amount of money offshore.

As long as money exists then the issue will continue.

andyh wrote:
Look, I suggest you just go and read up on anarcho-syndicalism. I've given you a few starting points on the thread. You'll find shitloads just googling. Otherwise, we're just going to be going round in circles.

andyh wrote:
It's a scaled down version just because it's manipulating the system for personal gain. Like I said, I am not moralising and I am not being critical or demanding you donate it to an orphanage or something. But it's just you fiddling the taxman to line your own pocket - there is nothing remotely radical or revolutionary about that.

Guevarista wrote: No not the same amount back.
Every VAT invoice I have gets deducted from what I have invoiced other companies and I pay govt the difference left over.
Say for example I submit 6 months worth of invoices to my customers and I charge 6000 quid in VAT, then I look at what I've bought in the way of VAT expenses over that same 6 month period and subtract that amount lets say its 1000 quid from the 6000 quid I invoiced and I pay the govt 5000 quid. I get to pocket the 1000 quid. Joe Bloggs PAYE worker never gets any VAT back.

Taxes are only viable if the govt issues its own money at 0% interest and taxes people to reduce inflation, in that instance its moral.
They should never ever need to tax anyone just so that govt can repay banks at interest for borrowing money for social welfare etc.
As for resources they should simply be accurately measured and fairly distributed.

dogsmilk wrote:
Well actualy donating to various charities would also be tax deductible so....lol!
Its hardly radical or revolutionary but it is to people who haven't a bloody clue it exists right in front of their faces.

Mod's may I respectfully request a split of this topic and creation of a new one on the subject of Worker's Cooperatives?

andyh wrote:
Again, I stress I am not moralising -I'm just bluntly stating - but I don't really mind paying tax - given I'm stuck with the current system although vast amounts are spent on bullshit or things I despise (like Trident or whatever), I simply do not mind the proprotion that goes to stuff like the NHS and paying people's JSA. Tax is not something that unduly concerns me (apart from billionaire & multinational tax dodging, cheeky cunts like Phillip Green). The problem is too much tax, and too much tax going on bullshit while the people who can most afford it do the most dodging. The principle of chipping in for public services and to help redistribute weath - the old socialist principle - I don't really have a problem with. The problem I have with the current system is they keep taking while cutting the services and still spending it on bullshit. Rather than cutting benefits while fighting wars, we should be cutting wars and paying benefits.

dogsmilk wrote:
The only reason everyone has to 'chip in' so to speak is because the government are too stupid to print their own money.
I don't like it either, hence why I don't pay for it, if I pay for it then I'm supporting it.