andyh wrote:
I've not put anybody on a pedestal... neither did I say that they can function without the rest of society ffs!
The thread is about social services which is why we're discussing their function... and inparticular your comments that society could do without them.... which to me is like removing one of the spokes of the wheel you've just described....

Gilly wrote:
Not at all Gilly...Petrol fumes and the sun not a good combination...Traffic fumes are deadly to young lungs..do the research...put it this way the nazis gassed people with petrol fumes,just take a look at the obscene amount of traffic we have on the roads and in the sky (not forgetting the din of traffic),its like the earth is becoming one huge Gas camp...TPTB put warnings on tobacco products yet the most dangerous products are in our face on a continual basis with no warnings ... Vehicles/Nuclear Chemical waste will be the end of this earth, especially when they have sucked the last drop of oil dry...Mad Max here we come...

Peace

Space Bandit wrote:
They have no real function whatsoever other than the one I described earlier, to maintain appearances.

andyh wrote:
I personally know 2 plumbers and a builder as friends, and I think they earn a pretty good living btw. Oh yeah, nearly forgot, my husband & sister work in the construction industry . Those trades are prone to instability, but can be very lucrative.

For clarity, the problem - the core of society you speak of - are you referring to the systems or the average man in the street?

I wouldn't consider putting emotion to one side, because it's as important in forming judgments as intellect is imo. It'd be like blocking off half of your thinking tools.

LightGiver wrote:
It is indeed fair enough to point out that having shitloads of traffic about the place is perhaps more of an issue than people who are careless crossing the road.
Where did the system fail? Expecting human beings to not make mistakes, both the drivers and the people crossing the road.
How do you solve it?
Public transport away from pedestrian areas, easily available, reliable, safe and comfortable and affordable for all.
How do you do that?
You remove the monetary system, simples :p

andyh wrote:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_to_Hell

Gilly wrote:
Again only on a self employed basis are these trades worthwhile doing Gilly.
If you are an employee then you are basically low life useless scum, just barely of more importance than the 'immigrants and doleys' the hate mail likes to gripe about of late.
'Lucrative' to me is not 50k a year with half of it disappearing down the plughole before you get to touch it.

The core of society is the belief set, the system, the paradigm, not the man on the street. The paradigm is maintained by everyone who has faith in it.

As for emotion btw it is something you only give slight care to for logical function. Its worth a few seconds of immediate gut emotional thought is all. I value information gathering as the highest logical function as the process itself is pointless without input.

andyh wrote:
So what happens to all the plumbers, electricians, technicians etc when they get dementia or terminal disease but they live alone with no family or friends?
Just leave them to rot in their easy chair after they've done their shift?! That actually sounds more like what the government would want... save everybody a few quid!
but no.... social services step in & help them out where possible. It might not always be the best but otherwise they would just rot.
Of course they have a role other than keeping up appearances.

Space Bandit wrote:
Govt has to justify its existence, its hardly going to be able to do so with nothing to offer.
Thats the whole point, create excuses for its existence which is really to meddle with the state of affairs to ensure that those at the top of society remain that way.
This is why the whole green movement is a complete joke, its at total odds with profit and profit is the name of the govt game to begin with.

This thread btw is really about parents and if you want an example of a bad parent you need look no further than govt itself.
It pretends that it is the perfect parent, that it knows best, it even employs people to be parents who are not parents in actuality and it goes around the globe killing people by various means whilst demanding rent from its children to keep a roof over their heads. It pretends to love all its children equally but reserves a special mansion for its favourites and rewards them with gifts galore paid for by the rent it robbed off the rest of the kids.

Lightgiver was quite right to point out that having roads with traffic passing through the middle of shopping and housing districts is indeed the height of stupidity in the first place but such is the teaching of this twisted parent which abuses its children so harshly that they are suffering from acute stockholm syndrome to such an extent that they will blame each other for the abuse of the parent.

As for what do you do about people who are old or ill, you obviously look after them but do you want to pay for it with govt slavery tokens or private slavery tokens, either way its the same old story imho. Where is the real care? Does anyone really at the end of the day give a proper shit about it?
As a whole the majority at least do not, they would rather outsource responsibility which is why we are in our current situation imho.
We have settled for less than we are capable of.

andyh wrote:
I agree mostly but the bottom line is that people need care & social services is in fact necessary in current society, regardless of whether it's the evil gvt providing it or not. Not everybody has family or friends to look after them... that's the way it is.... they don't deserve just to die suffering because of that. There are countless situations... all sorts of weird abuse cases and stuff where old people are getting had over by their families for their money while they lose their faculties... the list is endless. I'm happy knowing that the old woman next door who is paralysed from the neck down is getting looked after & taken out daily. I certainly wouldn't be able to do it, and she doesn't seem to have any family. The problem also lies where families simply can't provide the time because they have to work to make ends meet..... that's obviously not right either, but again... that's the way it is in the society we live in. We can't just leave people like that to die miserably because they've fulfilled their working life & they are of 'no use' to society any more.

Space Bandit wrote:
Life isn't fair, its just fairer than death huh?

Ofc services like this are great, they'd just be 10,000 times better without money in the way IMHO.
We're all dying miserably from the day we're born IMHO, its stagnation, I don't see this current state of affairs as mankinds natural condition is all.

andyh wrote:
No it's not natural in many respects.... & yes it comes down to money & we'd all be a lot richer without it, if removing it was done properly.
Unfortunately we have to deal with the consequences of how things have become as best we can. I'm all for tearing it down & starting again tbh. That said, I think there's a reasonable framework & infrastructure in place to build upon, it's mainly the hierarchical nature of society that's making it go backwards.

Space Bandit wrote:
I see that as a contradiction myself, I don't see much of a framework to build upon with a world devoid of money, the possibilities begin to get quite interesting but you have to sit and think about it for quite a while.
For starters a good one to kick off with is, what job would you want to do in a world without money?
You start to answer it and then minutes later regret the first answer and then hours later regret the second and so on.
How children born into such a world would answer that question is something quite scary indeed because in all likelihood I don't think any of us could guess.

andyh wrote:
Well there'd be no arguing about who builds hospitals etc coz they're already there!
I was thinking more along the lines of using what we've got already to help enable a future world without money & then go from there.... another topic anyway.
& I'd just carry on making tunes & producing bands! No brainer for me.... that is presuming we could do what we wanted.

In the right setting we could, theres always some twat out to spoil the party though.

wake_up_bomb wrote: Your a complete waste of oxygen ffs

Of Course they should be reported, if its that severe they need hospital treatment. Obviously no clue about parental response ability.

Go place a bet on the football or as your an avid supporter of ENGERRLAND at the cricket on the next wicket

entrangermercenary1 wrote:
It flew so fast over your head it left a bald parting and a go faster stripe.

andyh wrote:
If you cant prevent your children getting sunburn so severe THEY HAVE TO GO TO HOSPITAL even on a cloudy day at the beach,
A They should get a good shoeing
b. Then get banged up
c. Have 24hrs on a sunbed...non stop

Or is that acceptable that some fat fuck cant look after the kids ?

entrangermercenary1 wrote:

I was just gonna make a comment about it flying over but seen andy's was better

andyh wrote:
Think you spoke too soon!