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TOPIC: Forced into becoming more Democratic...

Forced into becoming more Democratic... 17 May 2013 23:35 #141

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andyh wrote:
.......... wrote:
Mike wrote:
.......... wrote:
andyh wrote:
If you actually wanted 'change' then you'd have voted libertarian.

Andy i already told you and WUB that i would have voted for Ralph Nader if that had been an option.
I actually think America needs a widescale social revolution, if any of the third parties start doing well stealing democrat votes, you could well end up with a dodgy Republican like Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin making president, Nader despite his good intentions could easily cause one of those paleo christards to get elected, the alternative to that or a dramatic change in the structure of politics in the U$A is to keep voting Dems i guess?

I couldn't imagine Mitt being taken half as seriously on the global platform as Obama, I think despite the continuing War on Terror and Terrorist detainments ongoing in Gitmo he's done a lot to restore America's global image, especially with the UN and the Mid East.

If i have to get back into this debate with Andy & WUB again i'm going to try and be more mature this time around.

I feel like Mike thinks from a practical perspective that the next generation can relate to more than others here.

Me and WUB kinda got into a little argument awhile back over this and the thread got locked and vented.

I personally believe that in 2000 voting for Nader instead of voting for Gore left us stuck with Bush and the Iraq war.

Now considering that a million people died in Iraq over some people making bad decisions at the voting booth is troubling.

Not Andy, WUB or anyone else can convince me that Bush & Cheney and the PNAC did not have that agenda.

Bush senior started that war and Bush Jr came along and finished it , simple as that.

Having a father and son both be president with one person only in between them is Monarchish.

I honestly just don't believe that Al Gore would have ordered the Shock & Awe of Iraq.

Which leads me to believe that not voting against Republicans is damaging to world health.

So even though i respect George Carlin, the idea of not voting is dangerous sometimes.

Do you want to know what thinking practical is? Its called voting libertarian, its called rejecting lies and taking responsibility for yourself.
Its called stopping expecting someone else to provide the answers for you. Because they WON'T, not EVER.

Obama has the SAME agenda as Bush, if you can't see it you are blinded by PR which is its intended purpose.

Andy, do you honestly believe to yourself that Obama has the same Agenda as Bush?

Please convince me.... :huh:
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 17 May 2013 23:41 #142

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.......... wrote:
andyh wrote:
.......... wrote:
Mike wrote:
.......... wrote:
andyh wrote:
If you actually wanted 'change' then you'd have voted libertarian.

Andy i already told you and WUB that i would have voted for Ralph Nader if that had been an option.
I actually think America needs a widescale social revolution, if any of the third parties start doing well stealing democrat votes, you could well end up with a dodgy Republican like Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin making president, Nader despite his good intentions could easily cause one of those paleo christards to get elected, the alternative to that or a dramatic change in the structure of politics in the U$A is to keep voting Dems i guess?

I couldn't imagine Mitt being taken half as seriously on the global platform as Obama, I think despite the continuing War on Terror and Terrorist detainments ongoing in Gitmo he's done a lot to restore America's global image, especially with the UN and the Mid East.

If i have to get back into this debate with Andy & WUB again i'm going to try and be more mature this time around.

I feel like Mike thinks from a practical perspective that the next generation can relate to more than others here.

Me and WUB kinda got into a little argument awhile back over this and the thread got locked and vented.

I personally believe that in 2000 voting for Nader instead of voting for Gore left us stuck with Bush and the Iraq war.

Now considering that a million people died in Iraq over some people making bad decisions at the voting booth is troubling.

Not Andy, WUB or anyone else can convince me that Bush & Cheney and the PNAC did not have that agenda.

Bush senior started that war and Bush Jr came along and finished it , simple as that.

Having a father and son both be president with one person only in between them is Monarchish.

I honestly just don't believe that Al Gore would have ordered the Shock & Awe of Iraq.

Which leads me to believe that not voting against Republicans is damaging to world health.

So even though i respect George Carlin, the idea of not voting is dangerous sometimes.

Do you want to know what thinking practical is? Its called voting libertarian, its called rejecting lies and taking responsibility for yourself.
Its called stopping expecting someone else to provide the answers for you. Because they WON'T, not EVER.

Obama has the SAME agenda as Bush, if you can't see it you are blinded by PR which is its intended purpose.

Andy, do you honestly believe to yourself that Obama has the same Agenda as Bush?

Please convince me.... :huh:

Convince you?

OK for the third time here we go again.

Still in Iraq, still in guantanamo, still in Afghanistan, still got bases all over the world, still occupying the chagos islanders homeland, still bailing out wall st, still supporting corporations like monsanto, still doing fuck all about everything he promised to do.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
Last Edit: 17 May 2013 23:41 by andyh.
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 17 May 2013 23:44 #143

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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 17 May 2013 23:50 #144

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Nick Clegg the useless bastard who Mike supports
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 17 May 2013 23:55 #145

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^^^^ She's gorgeous :inluv:
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 17 May 2013 23:59 #146

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irrepressible wrote:
^^^^ She's gorgeous :inluv:

She's a decent human being speaking common sense.
Need more like her.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 18 May 2013 00:11 #147

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andyh wrote:
.......... wrote:
andyh wrote:
.......... wrote:
Mike wrote:
.......... wrote:
andyh wrote:
If you actually wanted 'change' then you'd have voted libertarian.

Andy i already told you and WUB that i would have voted for Ralph Nader if that had been an option.
I actually think America needs a widescale social revolution, if any of the third parties start doing well stealing democrat votes, you could well end up with a dodgy Republican like Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin making president, Nader despite his good intentions could easily cause one of those paleo christards to get elected, the alternative to that or a dramatic change in the structure of politics in the U$A is to keep voting Dems i guess?

I couldn't imagine Mitt being taken half as seriously on the global platform as Obama, I think despite the continuing War on Terror and Terrorist detainments ongoing in Gitmo he's done a lot to restore America's global image, especially with the UN and the Mid East.

If i have to get back into this debate with Andy & WUB again i'm going to try and be more mature this time around.

I feel like Mike thinks from a practical perspective that the next generation can relate to more than others here.

Me and WUB kinda got into a little argument awhile back over this and the thread got locked and vented.

I personally believe that in 2000 voting for Nader instead of voting for Gore left us stuck with Bush and the Iraq war.

Now considering that a million people died in Iraq over some people making bad decisions at the voting booth is troubling.

Not Andy, WUB or anyone else can convince me that Bush & Cheney and the PNAC did not have that agenda.

Bush senior started that war and Bush Jr came along and finished it , simple as that.

Having a father and son both be president with one person only in between them is Monarchish.

I honestly just don't believe that Al Gore would have ordered the Shock & Awe of Iraq.

Which leads me to believe that not voting against Republicans is damaging to world health.

So even though i respect George Carlin, the idea of not voting is dangerous sometimes.

Do you want to know what thinking practical is? Its called voting libertarian, its called rejecting lies and taking responsibility for yourself.
Its called stopping expecting someone else to provide the answers for you. Because they WON'T, not EVER.

Obama has the SAME agenda as Bush, if you can't see it you are blinded by PR which is its intended purpose.

Andy, do you honestly believe to yourself that Obama has the same Agenda as Bush?

Please convince me.... :huh:

Convince you?

OK for the third time here we go again.

Still in Iraq, still in guantanamo, still in Afghanistan, still got bases all over the world, still occupying the chagos islanders homeland, still bailing out wall st, still supporting corporations like monsanto, still doing fuck all about everything he promised to do.


I don't really know a lot about US politics admittedly, but surely Obama is stimied by a Republican majority in congress? It's the system that is at fault here. Nothing can ever get done by the President as it'll always be thrown out by the opposition. Whether or not Obama is pushing hard enough is another matter.
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 18 May 2013 00:20 #148

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Its irrelevant.
Presidents do not dictate unless its a dictatorship.
They have all worked towards that goal, repubs and dems.

Just as the UK gov have worked towards stripping away liberties so do the US gov, as in fact every govt around the world bar Switzerland has because they are the ONLY country that actually has anything resembling democracy.

All those of you who finally bloody get it please raise your hands , lol.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 18 May 2013 00:32 #149

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andyh wrote:
Its irrelevant.
Presidents do not dictate unless its a dictatorship.
They have all worked towards that goal, repubs and dems.

Just as the UK gov have worked towards stripping away liberties so do the US gov, as in fact every govt around the world bar Switzerland has because they are the ONLY country that actually has anything resembling democracy.

All those of you who finally bloody get it please raise your hands , lol.
I sort of understand that these are all pretty much puppet regimes for the Elite and Big Business.
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 18 May 2013 00:44 #150

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vizier wrote:
andyh wrote:
Its irrelevant.
Presidents do not dictate unless its a dictatorship.
They have all worked towards that goal, repubs and dems.

Just as the UK gov have worked towards stripping away liberties so do the US gov, as in fact every govt around the world bar Switzerland has because they are the ONLY country that actually has anything resembling democracy.

All those of you who finally bloody get it please raise your hands , lol.
I sort of understand that these are all pretty much puppet regimes for the Elite and Big Business.

Exactly, nuff said, thats it in a nutshell.
If they weren't they'd make voting illegal.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 18 May 2013 00:52 #151

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The truth, way beyond CO2.
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 18 May 2013 00:52 #152

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The following user(s) said Thank You: andyh, chandrakavi

Forced into becoming more Democratic... 18 May 2013 01:03 #153

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It's a shame the term democratic has been basterised by American Politics
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 18 May 2013 02:59 #154

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
.......... wrote:
Me and WUB kinda got into a little argument awhile back over this and the thread got locked and vented.
Look, no argument from me. My views are quite clear. Anyone is free to hold a different view.

I would just say to you, go back and look at the 'Wealth Inequality in America' video. Are you happy with that situation? If so, carry on as you are. If not, how did voting help change it?

I'm not happy about virtually the same situation occurring in the UK, and it's extremely sad / irritating / amusing to see people engage in the same behaviour over and over again, and then whinge about the government that they voted for.

I've never registered to vote because I always felt that it was pointless, and I'm yet to see anything to change my mind. If I lived in a direct democracy, I would vote all the time.

I'm well of the wealth Inequality in America but Mitt Romney would have only made it worse.

I felt if i did not vote for Obama and Romney won that Tehran would suffer the same fate as Baghdad.

So i felt it was my civic duty to vote in hope to save a million lives which is what Iraq might have lost.
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 18 May 2013 09:12 #155

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.......... wrote:
I'm well of the wealth Inequality in America but Mitt Romney would have only made it worse.

I felt if i did not vote for Obama and Romney won that Tehran would suffer the same fate as Baghdad.

So i felt it was my civic duty to vote in hope to save a million lives which is what Iraq might have lost.
Obama has been appalling on foreign policy, and continues to be, and will continue in the future to be so. But Andy has already briefly gone over that.

My question was: "I would just say to you, go back and look at the 'Wealth Inequality in America' video. Are you happy with that situation? If so, carry on as you are. If not, how did voting help change it?"

So how did voting change it? Are poor people better off now that you've voted?
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 18 May 2013 12:01 #156

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There's a lot of "black and white" reasoning in this thread.
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 18 May 2013 14:30 #157

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
Obama has been appalling on foreign policy, and continues to be, and will continue in the future to be so. But Andy has already briefly gone over that.

My question was: "I would just say to you, go back and look at the 'Wealth Inequality in America' video. Are you happy with that situation? If so, carry on as you are. If not, how did voting help change it?"

So how did voting change it? Are poor people better off now that you've voted?

I had to vote for Obama because i honestly believe Mitt Romney would have already attacked Iran...

And i really don't need another reason than that...
"The Great Liberator" aka #1 Anarchist
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 18 May 2013 14:50 #158

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psketti wrote:
He's taking the piss. Plus, he's well aware of most of our views on this particular subject so clearly he's got fuck all better to do tonight but rehash the same crap.
should read, he's well aware of the absence of our views on this particular subject.
You don't even accept the most basic democratic common reality exists, the political system as it is now, you advocate disbelief in that fundamental material fact, and non participation in democracy altogether, your views are based on nothing, i wouldn't ask some spectator in the stands what it was like playing in an FA cup final, you need to be involved, active in a thing to know a thing.
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Space Bandit 18 May 2013 14:58 #159

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I hold the position of being able to complain about all of them... because I know they're all corrupt scum fuckers.
You on the other hand should be held accountable for any policies (such as war) inflicted by your chosen political party.

Just wondered if you could clarify this statement.

Surely you mean if you vote for a party knowing they are planning to go to war, or start a war, say like between Immigrants and Nationals like UKIP, then you are partially accountable?

Do you think because someone is a member or voter of a political party they have no right to criticise or attempt to change that party>?
Everyone has the right to complain, it's just utterly useless if you're not even involved in the situation and just being negative about everything on the internet because Icke dramatically altered your world view.
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Forced into becoming more Democratic... 18 May 2013 15:01 #160

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Mike wrote:
psketti wrote:
He's taking the piss. Plus, he's well aware of most of our views on this particular subject so clearly he's got fuck all better to do tonight but rehash the same crap.
should read, he's well aware of the absence of our views on this particular subject.
You don't even accept the most basic democratic common reality exists, the political system as it is now, you advocate disbelief in that fundamental material fact, and non participation in democracy altogether, your views are based on nothing, i wouldn't ask some spectator in the stands what it was like playing in an FA cup final, you need to be involved, active in a thing to know a thing.

if you believe you're voting for real democracy you're utterly deluded.
It's no different from voting for your own slavery & deciding who should be your master. It's like saying you think the status quo is ok and you're happy it's going to get worse ffs!
People who don't vote for a reason can hardly be categorised as having views that are 'based on nothing'. That's just a feeble attack without basis.
Your stance on this is completely bizarre & based on flogic accompanied by petty insults. It's fucking pathetic as much as snivelling and grovelling to the Tories or Labour is by voting for the cunts.
Set the controls for the heart of the earth.
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