So basically knowing how many jews died is of no fucking relevance whatsoever and its a complete waste of time talking about it.

ronisron wrote:
Ron, Zionists did not "create" the Holocaust. Like how on earth did the Zionists have anything whatsoever to do with mobile killing units in the Soviet Union? Please explain.

dogsmilk wrote:
7 or 8 pm late in the evening for you? Rhetorical.... The point is, some people are attempting to claim that 5 million Jews went missing between 1993-94 -- of course it's bullshit. The point is, they attempted to piggyback it on to the claim that 6 million were dead post WWII, and that 6 million were dead post WWI.
dogsmilk wrote:
Excuse me, Zionism is centred in England, not Israel. As you said yesterday, the Brits controlled Palestine.... right? They were also behind the formation of the illegal, violent state of Israel. More than Israel, Joe Biden is in the US, for instance.
dogsmilk wrote:
You just contradicted yourself. He believes it, but he's lying.... you can't have it both ways. Joe Biden saying he is a Zionist, means he is a Zionist. You suggested pro Israel, that's not what he said. He said "I am a Zionist", that's why it''s relevant, and it's pertinent, because he's not Jewish. Point is and was, Zionists are not Jewish, they are Zionists, and they exist all over. It's also pertinent, because Joe Biden is VP of the US, not Israel. It is you who is suggesting "it means nothing", when clearly it means something to be Zionist to the VP of the United States.

dogsmilk wrote:
I've not been suckered by anyhthing. There was an attempt to launch the Holocaust story, featuring 6 million Jews in 1919, right after WWI. I'll post it for you again, because it seems you're not getting it.

morris108.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/6mil.gif?w=700&h=934

The Holocaust plays on the Talmudic prophecy that the Kingdom of David would return after the fiery death of 6 million Jews -- Holocaust means death by fire. 6 million Jews died after WWI....... oops... scratch that, after WWII, and lo and behold, the British controlled Palestine gives way to the creation of Israel in 1948, the "Homeland" returns, prophecy fulfilled.

andyh wrote:
It's not the number is it? It's the lie! Maybe you're happy to be lied to - maybe you can't see how it is used as a political device. Maybe you are happy to suck up lies and ignore how those lies are used for political gain etc.

Other people see it for what it is and they call it out - despite all the abuse and false allegations that generally get thrown about.

It's like fishing for farts with a cullender debating issues with anyone who holds an extreme view. That doesn't mean you can ignore the stench of BS and lies.

Frog wrote:
So there was a lie about precisely how many jews died....
Doesn't govt lie several times a day?

Does this really mean something monumentally important and worth arguing about here?
Damned if I can see it.

andyh wrote:
Ah now you're getting it.

Oh maybe not. So what you're saying is that you accept that the government lies to you daily and it's not worthy of investigation? Or are you saying that you would rather be selective about the things you discuss and by extension everyone else should avoid those issues?

Do you understand how the event has been politicised by both extremes?

I am not inclined to believe it was a lie - more of an estimate - an estimate that has been constantly been under revision and lowered as more conclusive evidence has come to light.

The crux for me is not whether or not the estimate was wrong or exaggerated because for me it matters not if it were 6 million or 6 thousand - what matters to me is 'were the jewish people of the second world war era targeted and treated inhumanely by the government at the time based purely on their jewishness?' to date I have to answer yes they were - as were other groups of peoples - that for me is wrong and intolerable.

I'm saying its of little or no practical significance to me right now frog.

Even if I knew the exact figure it would still be of no significance to me right now.
When the EU decide to make the digital euro currency, or new taxes or diminishing rights and services provided by said tax increases.. I'm sure the first thing thats going to be on my mind is how many jews did or did not die in ww2. It will really be sooo useful to me. I can picture now the many wonderful things I could do with this knowledge...such as...well I'll think of something.

Zionism..well thats different, it is useful to know who is pushing that and what zionism today is all about and boots has explained that in a very good thread which I supported.

ronisron wrote:
That doesn't address my question at all fella

andyh wrote:
It's completely irrelevant whether they were 6 million, 5 million, or 4 million... it's not even a lie as some people insist on claiming, it's a simple discrepancy among historians (such as the staggering discrepancy for Stalin's 8 to 60 million; that's 52 million difference).

They know the media and other interest groups will always choose the highest figure (6 million in this case) from all the figures given by historians (3 to 6 million), as well as they know that capitalists and anti-communists will always choose the 60 million for Stalin.

What happens is that it's very convenient calling it a lie when you have an agenda; rather than accepting it for what it really is: going for the highest number that can be referenced.

[quote="ronisron" post=38837

7 or 8 pm late in the evening for you? Rhetorical.... The point is, some people are attempting to claim that 5 million Jews went missing between 1993-94 -- of course it's bullshit. The point is, they attempted to piggyback it on to the claim that 6 million were dead post WWII, and that 6 million were dead post WWI.[/quote]

Whatever time it was, it certainly seemed late. I did a lot of posting yesterday.

And it's on a website called GlobalfireTV - what kind of significance does what appears on GlobalfireTV have for anything?????
If "they" tried to piggyback it onto "the claim 6 million were dead post WWII" why did they do this on some website nobody has heard of? What on earth are you talking about?????

the fact Britain controlled Palestine does not mean Zionism "is centred" in Britain any more than British control of India meant Hinduism "is centred" in Britain. There was sympathy for the Jews, but ultimately it was pragmatism. The Jews that died were not the issue - they were dead - swathes of displaced Jews with nowhere to go were. And Britain or America weren't going to have them all turn up on their doorstep.

I didn't say he was lying. I said politicians say things that they thing are the right thing to say. I'd say he's genuinely pro-Israeli and in a sense is a Zionist. But I doubt he's really that arsed. If he didn't feel it was convenient to be 'a Zionist' I daresay he wouldn't give a fuck. Do I really have to expl\ain to you why it's best not to take what politicians say totally at face value?

But yes - you do not have to be Jewish to be a Zionist. And it also depends on what you mean by "Zionists". As was said earlier, in a sense I am a Zionist insofar as I believe that since Israel exists and people live there they should stay there. Except I do not agree with how the Palestinians are treated and think that Israel should make a peace that includes them giving back land they took. At the other extreme some Zionists may believe God gave the land to the Israelites and all Palestinians should do one. And all variations inbetween. "Zionist" isn't a singlular, universal concept.

Ron. it was people calling for aid for Jewish people and, as I have already shown you, it wasn't about some magical six milion figure and certainly has nothing to do with the Talmud. Like if it's all about 6 million, why are there 57 newspaper articles talking about 3 million Jews who need help as opposed to 44 saying six million? Can't these Zionists count or something? Or maybe it's because 3+3 = 6? So we can then infer 33rd degree Masons were involved or something.
This whole notion is so bizarre I don't know where to begin. Like where there some kind of mystery Zionist agents suddenly writing for newspapers, some of which talked about six million Jews, others about other figures, not actually all dead? How did these people get there? Who were they? I suggest you sit down and think about how what you're suggesting could actually happen in a real world, practical way and how it's supposed to make any sense.

thoreau wrote:
I think most sane and rational people would hold much the same view.

Some people may wonder why the event has been exploited with total disregard for those views. Maybe the reason is political? Personally I think it is political.
andyh wrote:
Well it is lies such as this that allows the EU tyranny to march on relentlessly! Which is why all the lies from governments etc. need to be investigated. If you don't see how that is relevant then nothing will convince you other wise. 9-11 is created and exploited for political gain and thousands upon thousands have and will continue to die as a direct result of that. These exploitation of these events are one in the same. They all add up and deliver us where we are today as well as where we are heading in the foreseeable future. That for me makes everything relevant especially when historical events are being used to stage manage current political thinking.

Ron has presented some good info about the roll of Zionism also - some of which you yourself have presented in the past as you say.

The whole thing is a mess, simply ignoring the points where things crossover because they are unpleasant doesn't make any sense to me. Do you seriously think the evil bastards that cook this shit up are worried about unpleasant scenarios and repeating these things?

Frog wrote:

sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/General/37922-Th...t=20&start=360#38837
Ron I;m gonna be straight with you here, outta love really, everything you think you know, is a lie

That is something that puzzles me also.

Those that are so intent on proving that the 6 million number is wrong never seem to take into account that the number has been constantly and consistently revised by those on both sides of the argument. Whether it was gas chambers or bullets or typhus does not negate that millions of people from various groups died unnecessarily and separately from those who were casualties of war. That is not to say that the loss of life as a consequence of war is not devastating in itself.

Every event in history can and has been used by various groups in order to claim that they were right - or that they can provide an alternative - or that they should have power. Its all political - its all propaganda - imho its all bollocks as it removes the human element - look at the shooting in colorado - we have the pro gun lot saying this is proof we should have guns - the anti gun lot saying this is proof we should not have guns - the anti gaming lobby saying see gaming is dangerous - those that wish to limit freedoms using it as an excuse for more security - those who dislike films saying it is proof that films cause violence - the list is almost endless. Various groups jostling to exploit the deaths of fellow humans in order to gain popularity.

I feel the same way about issues such as the holocaust - whether it be the extremist jewish groups using it or the anti semites - in there lost amongst all the posturing is the needless loss of human life. Forgetting that is the first step to desensitivity and a world of bots interested only in themselves rather then wanting to protect and nourish life as a whole. Imho ofc.

Come on Ron address this specifically, you can't deny that's true!
Are right wing Christian Conservatives like Biden ok as long as they don't support Israel?

Found this in youtube ,finally they did one on DIF! LOL

Frog wrote:
I would say just people ignoring whats staring them in the face and carrying on voting for it allows it to continue and this specific lie has no relevance at all, nor is it something anyone can prove with exact figures so.../shrugs.

I already know all about it, its still of no use to me right now, nor will it ever be.
Preaching to the choir tbh.

chandrakavi wrote:
I promise it wasn't me.

I heard that Hitler was banned because he wasn't anti-Semitic enough... he believed nukes were not a Jewish hoax.