feather wrote:
Well, we were considering a situation where there was plenty of everything so need for trade at all. Hence no money

Bartering is still a monetary system..kinda...sort of. :p

The model I'm suggesting is one free of any form of currency feather. No barter or anything. Similar to Fresco's RBE or Tellinger's Contributionism I guess

andyh wrote:
lol oops

Ok guys, I'm scanning through the thread now and picking up your drift.

I see one glaring issue, which is the usual hiccup in any ideal system.
People!
They will horde, steal, not contribute, play protectionism and break the system in their favour the first chance they get.

This has happened since hunter-gatherers through until today. The only difference is the Armani suits.

feather wrote:
What is the motivation for hoarding or stealing if you can have everything you need?
Similarly protectionism?
We live on a planet of abundance do we not?
I genuinely do think that given the workload would fall substantially, the removal on limits of research and development that are imposed by a need for currency would lead to tech that helps with shitty jobs etc and people would not be continually stressed by running to standstill, people would happily contribute a few hours of their time.

dubmeup wrote: That is exactly the type of quirk in humans I acknowledge they defy logic on.
This entire discussion is prompted by people who horde and protect to massive extremes.
We commonly refer to them nowadays as the 1%ers but they are not alone, the same syndrome filters down throughout society in graduated shades.

We're animals. Our instinct is to ensure our continuance by marking out secure, fruitful areas and repelling outside threats from impinging upon that security.
Is that primeval and potentially short-sighted? Oh yeah.
Are we as a species ready and prepared to throw that aside just yet? I see no signs of that unfortunately.
Humans are insecure and will take a lot to convince them to move up the evolutionary scale before that changes.
Imo.

Having said all that. Which I stand by 100% btw.

Some people may be at that stage of discovery and exploration and the setting up of communes/collectives/<fill in other name here> to refine ideas amongst willing participants should be eagerly encouraged.
The best chance of persuading greater numbers to take that jump is to have working examples in as many locations as possible.

Build it, make it work, they'll come.

I see everything you're saying feather and agree with all of it.

In my view one of the main aims of the media/religion/edummycation systems are to keep us held in our animal state. A society built on the R complex, the reptilian brain. By keeping us in that survival focussed state of evolution it becomes easy to control us. Fears can be played upon.

A human being that has for whatever reason entered a state where the two brain hemispheres are balanced and in co-operation is not quite so easy to control. They are way beyond the R complex. I'd speculate that this is a state we are naturally heading towards and that there are those that know this and are desperate to prevent the masses from entering this new phase.

I think we are closer than it seems to a breakthrough in this regard and that goes a long way to explaining a lot of what is being foisted upon us in this time. So whilst I agree that the 'evolution' of humanity to a point where it is ready to dismiss currency seems an awful way off, I don't think it's anything like as far off as it appears.

and I agree with all you've stated there ^
The education system is absolutely geared towards producing unquestioning worker drones.
Politically I also see them about to double down on that.
Visionary educationalists like Ken Robinson very much sees the future in freeing people from that process and encouraging individual creativity.

Politically I also note that they are herding in those on the periphery of dronedom, extending pensionable age, hounding the disabled and the unemployed into mandatory work-for-benefit exploitation rackets/private sector conscription using the "It's for your own good" transparent bs.
Yup, something massive is definitely in the offing.
The current system is crumbling. It absolutely beggars any kind of belief that all those banks and financial institutions went down at the same time and no-one saw it all coming at least a decade ago. So the crumbling has to be by design.
Why?
It gives them the facade to implement the new program.
To paraphrase the PNAC guys, they needed a "Pearl Harbour type event".
There is much, much more than currency issues on the near horizon.
The banking scam is global, so will their 'remedies' be.
I hope my kids are up for the fight.

this is all fine and dandy. but how do we pay strippers?

i hope the whole system falls apart. fuck it, its not worth spending your whole life chasing coins and papers when you could be with your family and friends. i know work needs done. we need power and water blah blah. but everyone, 8 hours a day spent pushing papers around?? blows my mind.
life aint easy, you got to work to support yourself. part of the system seems to cram people in as close as possible, make em breed, and lock em into slave jobs.
you think people would work mcdonalds if they dont get paid? america would collapse!!11!!!

feather wrote:
I find it impressive how easily you explained that...

batou wrote:
The problem is Americans are doing nothing to make the system fall apart.

People in the system would be scared things would turn 3rd world in the US.

feather wrote:
Absolutely, the financial system is being imploded by design. It's inevitable that a fractional reserve and usury based system will collapse. It was always in the design. The beauty of it to a bunch of psycho freaks is that it provides a "legitimate" mechanism for shepherding real world wealth towards yourselves in the meantime.

What is planned as the replacement for the current model is really just a superficial makeover but with the added benefit of (so they think) removing the grass roots black market and small scale tax avoidance etc.
They can call it what they want, digital world economy, carbon credit, whatever. The fundamental principle will stay the same.

You're absolutely right that there is way more than economic change in the offing but for this thread I'd like to stick to currency as much as possible.

I know that in this thread people have suggested that we need a big experiment to take place that can show the masses an alternative way of distributing resources. If we were having this discussion 20 years ago I'd agree. Where we are now, I don't think there is time for that. I think that the point of the "transition" is too close. I think we can all take steps, however big or small to walk away from the currency model (wish the apprentice was here right now ) and by doing that we can lead by example. I think that discussions like this, where we address the perceived issues of ditching currency are of value. The more people that have that light bulb go on the better. Each and every person that truly gets it that ANY form of currency is not only unnecessary but also intrinsically a system of control of the masses by the few and a mechanism for "legal" theft, will go on to start new discussions with others.

When I first started considering a world without currency I came up with all the same questions that have been asked in this thread, it really twisted my noggin. As I continued the thought experiment, more and more of the ingrained obstacles fell away. I'm now in a position where despite not having all the answers I am 100% certain that there are NO reasons to keep any form of currency....