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TOPIC: This is What we Have to Look Forward to

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 22:31 #61

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good debate there lads few good points made by all, i think at some point andyh if you really want cooperation to work on a widescale like you say you do, you're going to have to reassess your opinions of other people ;)

Out of interest as this thread is about retirement etc, how does a self employed individual etc continue their independence in old age, relying on their children to carry on their trade, homeschooling etc? is this not quite limiting on the child's development?
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 22:32 #62

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dogsmilk wrote:
andyh wrote:
dogsmilk wrote:
andyh wrote:

I see ES and David Duke as both being stupid assholes.
Sorry DM.
Like I said before, intelligence would acknowledge the power of co-operation not separation.
It would also acknowledge some aspects of reality like you know...falling fertility rates as evidenced and recorded by scientists the world over. Ofc all this is completely ignored by mainstream culture which refuses to look at it.
To address it would be to change its outlook which would be the intelligent scientific thing to do ;)

I of course agree with the assholes part. But I'd maintain Duke is intelligent.

Look, you're equating intelligence with what you consider to be rational and sensible. I'm saying intelligence is a broad church.
So a conman is intelligent if he figures out a clever way of getting you to hand over your cash
David Duke is intelligent if he concocts pseudo-intellectual arguments as to why Jews are this or black people are that some people will be beguiled by - he knows what he's doing.
Advertising execs are intelligent if they figure out a new way of convincing you you need whatever bullshit
Your average Joe is intelligent when he spends hours working out how to mod whatever computer game or having an encyclopaedic knowledge of his football team.

You can't equate intelligence with people thinking the sort of things you thing they should. Really, what you're trying to suggest about average Joe is ignorance, which is different. Or even willful ignorance.

You may say that's semantics but I think it's important - because I don't think it's a good thing to write off billions of people because they don't share your personal priorities.

I'll ignore the rest of it cos its too epic and/or because you agree with much of it anyway.
I'll simply point out what I explained earlier about intelligence, if you disagree then thats fine.
I don't expect everyone to have the same definition for the word.

I see intelligence as being tied in with questioning and the entire cognitive process, you don't big deal tbh.
/shrugs.

Yeah we always end up sort of agreeing in a weird disagreeing sort of way. And you know what? That sort of thing gives me hope :thumbup:

Yep I guess so :)
Its different folks different strokes. So different words are used.
You described the conman above for example as intelligent I would instead use the word cunning which would have different implications for me than intelligent.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 22:37 #63

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Guevarista wrote:
good debate there lads few good points made by all, i think at some point andyh if you really want cooperation to work on a widescale like you say you do, you're going to have to reassess your opinions of other people ;)

Out of interest as this thread is about retirement etc, how does a self employed individual etc continue their independence in old age, relying on their children to carry on their trade, homeschooling etc? is this not quite limiting on the child's development?

Hmm I'm not sure how homeschooling and carrying on the same trade need necessarily apply.
I guess you simply use the tax advantages to have money seeded away for retirement.
I went in to some depth about various self employed tax advanatges on DIF and I wouldn't want to have to type it all out again :/

I'm feeling lazy tonight lol.

Basically PAYE workers would make use of company pension schemes but the ironic thins is that few of us would ever stay with a company until retirement....such a thing just doesn't happen anymore. Most of us have dozens of jobs before eventual retirement and even then, most of us would be lucky to have any pension at all!
Sad but true.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 22:47 #64

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Back OT btw.



^This is real science, this is the facts.
Its hard to see this right now, especially if you live in the UK but is IS happening and it will take time for people to see it.
This is what I wanted to get across.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 22:50 #65

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andyh wrote:

Basically PAYE workers would make use of company pension schemes but the ironic thins is that few of us would ever stay with a company until retirement....such a thing just doesn't happen anymore. Most of us have dozens of jobs before eventual retirement and even then, most of us would be lucky to have any pension at all!
Sad but true.

Ah - the 'flexible' job market. See I think the constant insecurity is the other way they getcha. It's pretty difficult for people to think about much else when they're hopping between short term contracts. Back when people had job security, it was easier for them to turn their attention to fighting for something better and gave them more opportunities to organise in the workplace.
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 22:55 #66

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dogsmilk wrote:
andyh wrote:

Basically PAYE workers would make use of company pension schemes but the ironic thins is that few of us would ever stay with a company until retirement....such a thing just doesn't happen anymore. Most of us have dozens of jobs before eventual retirement and even then, most of us would be lucky to have any pension at all!
Sad but true.

Ah - the 'flexible' job market. See I think the constant insecurity is the other way they getcha. It's pretty difficult for people to think about much else when they're hopping between short term contracts. Back when people had job security, it was easier for them to turn their attention to fighting for something better and gave them more opportunities to organise in the workplace.

Exactly yep :)
I personally see the only cure to this being self employment. I now have more job security than I had before, it might sound weird but its true.

I suppose there is govt jobs which are long term and fairly secure but even these are becoming less secure in lower positions with austerity and all that.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 22:59 #67

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andyh wrote:
Back OT btw.



^This is real science, this is the facts.
Its hard to see this right now, especially if you live in the UK but is IS happening and it will take time for people to see it.
This is what I wanted to get across.

Yes I think there is certainly a problem in terms of the economic one - but I don't get the bit about "extinction" - there are about 7 billion people in the world - think the remaining 250 Siberian tigers would, if they could, be saying they have a rather more substantial claim to the endangered list.
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 23:06 #68

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dogsmilk wrote:
andyh wrote:
Back OT btw.



^This is real science, this is the facts.
Its hard to see this right now, especially if you live in the UK but is IS happening and it will take time for people to see it.
This is what I wanted to get across.

Yes I think there is certainly a problem in terms of the economic one - but I don't get the bit about "extinction" - there are about 7 billion people in the world - think the remaining 250 Siberian tigers would, if they could, be saying they have a rather more substantial claim to the endangered list.

It depends if this modern way of life as single people without kids continues to spread amongst all other cultures on the planet.
If it does then yes we will indeed be facing extinction.

Theres many variables at play here than just 'the fear of having kids' <Hehehe remember that thread on DIF and how many emotional strings I pulled? :p

There's also the real declining fertility of the male in particular and how lower numbers of males are born in certain areas that are polluted (see the disappearing male documentary)
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 23:12 #69

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dogsmilk wrote:
Are we not allowed to debate anything on here without your personal approval now? Or does it have to fall within some kind of accepted constraints about how long we can talk for?
Yes, you have to seek my approval, or rather our approval. Whether or not you find this boring is irrelevant.

I've said my piece, pay as much or as little attention as you want.
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 23:15 #70

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andyh wrote:
dogsmilk wrote:
andyh wrote:

Basically PAYE workers would make use of company pension schemes but the ironic thins is that few of us would ever stay with a company until retirement....such a thing just doesn't happen anymore. Most of us have dozens of jobs before eventual retirement and even then, most of us would be lucky to have any pension at all!
Sad but true.

Ah - the 'flexible' job market. See I think the constant insecurity is the other way they getcha. It's pretty difficult for people to think about much else when they're hopping between short term contracts. Back when people had job security, it was easier for them to turn their attention to fighting for something better and gave them more opportunities to organise in the workplace.

Exactly yep :)
I personally see the only cure to this being self employment. I now have more job security than I had before, it might sound weird but its true.

I suppose there is govt jobs which are long term and fairly secure but even these are becoming less secure in lower positions with austerity and all that.

Well you might, but it ain't that straightforward for a lot of people. For example, a friend of Mrs Dogsmilk built up a fairly successful business - one change in policy in their market and they've nearly gone to the wall causing much stress. They're hanging in there, barely breaking even. It's a gamble, and one that varies depending on what you can do. And also depends on whether you can do something you can realistically start your own business in. And you may need substantial start-up capital. Hello bank loan.
Small businesses are not automatically immune from recessions you know.
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 23:15 #71

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
dogsmilk wrote:
Are we not allowed to debate anything on here without your personal approval now? Or does it have to fall within some kind of accepted constraints about how long we can talk for?
Yes, you have to seek my approval, or rather our approval. Whether or not you find this boring is irrelevant.

I've said my piece, pay as much or as little attention as you want.

Yes Sir!

May I please go to the toilet sir?

Was that the royal we?
Last Edit: 29 Dec 2012 23:16 by dogsmilk.
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 23:21 #72

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
Fair enough, mate, I don't want an argument. You may have noticed, though, that the more confrontational, argumentative people never change their behaviour, and the more sensitive people leave permanently.

And your suggestion for a solution to that situation is?

;)
truth-zone.co.uk/ - the other place...

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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 23:21 #73

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andyh wrote:
dogsmilk wrote:
andyh wrote:
Back OT btw.



^This is real science, this is the facts.
Its hard to see this right now, especially if you live in the UK but is IS happening and it will take time for people to see it.
This is what I wanted to get across.

Yes I think there is certainly a problem in terms of the economic one - but I don't get the bit about "extinction" - there are about 7 billion people in the world - think the remaining 250 Siberian tigers would, if they could, be saying they have a rather more substantial claim to the endangered list.

It depends if this modern way of life as single people without kids continues to spread amongst all other cultures on the planet.
If it does then yes we will indeed be facing extinction.

Theres many variables at play here than just 'the fear of having kids' <Hehehe remember that thread on DIF and how many emotional strings I pulled? :p

There's also the real declining fertility of the male in particular and how lower numbers of males are born in certain areas that are polluted (see the disappearing male documentary)

Bah - I wouldn't worry about that. I think it far more likely our civilisation will totally collapse due to its unsustainable nature waaaaaaay before population declines to anything like what it was even a hundred years ago.
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 23:24 #74

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dogsmilk wrote:
andyh wrote:
dogsmilk wrote:
andyh wrote:
Back OT btw.



^This is real science, this is the facts.
Its hard to see this right now, especially if you live in the UK but is IS happening and it will take time for people to see it.
This is what I wanted to get across.

Yes I think there is certainly a problem in terms of the economic one - but I don't get the bit about "extinction" - there are about 7 billion people in the world - think the remaining 250 Siberian tigers would, if they could, be saying they have a rather more substantial claim to the endangered list.

It depends if this modern way of life as single people without kids continues to spread amongst all other cultures on the planet.
If it does then yes we will indeed be facing extinction.

Theres many variables at play here than just 'the fear of having kids' <Hehehe remember that thread on DIF and how many emotional strings I pulled? :p

There's also the real declining fertility of the male in particular and how lower numbers of males are born in certain areas that are polluted (see the disappearing male documentary)

Bah - I wouldn't worry about that. I think it far more likely our civilisation will totally collapse due to its unsustainable nature waaaaaaay before population declines to anything like what it was even a hundred years ago.

Posssibly yess...
Deliberate misspelling above btw ;)

I see top heavy pensioners not being possible to support by a dwindling youth of taxpayers being an early problem too.
Perhaps both will play a part?

What worries me most is the idea that all of this is planned for,
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 23:29 #75

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andyh wrote:
dogsmilk wrote:
andyh wrote:
dogsmilk wrote:
andyh wrote:
Back OT btw.



^This is real science, this is the facts.
Its hard to see this right now, especially if you live in the UK but is IS happening and it will take time for people to see it.
This is what I wanted to get across.

Yes I think there is certainly a problem in terms of the economic one - but I don't get the bit about "extinction" - there are about 7 billion people in the world - think the remaining 250 Siberian tigers would, if they could, be saying they have a rather more substantial claim to the endangered list.

It depends if this modern way of life as single people without kids continues to spread amongst all other cultures on the planet.
If it does then yes we will indeed be facing extinction.

Theres many variables at play here than just 'the fear of having kids' <Hehehe remember that thread on DIF and how many emotional strings I pulled? :p

There's also the real declining fertility of the male in particular and how lower numbers of males are born in certain areas that are polluted (see the disappearing male documentary)

Bah - I wouldn't worry about that. I think it far more likely our civilisation will totally collapse due to its unsustainable nature waaaaaaay before population declines to anything like what it was even a hundred years ago.

Posssibly yess...
Deliberate misspelling above btw ;)

I see top heavy pensioners not being possible to support by a dwindling youth of taxpayers being an early problem too.
Perhaps both will play a part?

What worries me most is the idea that all of this is planned for,

Yeah - I see the pensioners thing being an issue. They'll still insist they can afford Trident submarines even when they're suggesting pensioners be turned into soylent green though.

I think it's probably more worrying it isn't planned. They'll just wait until it happens content in the knowledge when they're old and grey they'll have a enormous bank account and some other fucker will be lumped with explaining why we can't afford old people.
Last Edit: 29 Dec 2012 23:29 by dogsmilk.
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 23:31 #76

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When do you expect this particular shit to hit the fan Andy? I want to know if I'll be dead or if I'm going to be working until I'm 90.
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 23:36 #77

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diamondgeezer wrote:
And your suggestion for a solution to that situation is?

;)
Well, there is no solution. I'm just illustrating how well challenging people's behaviour works, and how receptive they are to it. This is something we all agreed to do, and I tried to do it for a while, and this is why I stopped because people don't take your comments on board, so it just makes it pointless. I tried to challenge the anti-Icke stuff many moons ago, that had absolutely no effect whatsoever. If you're going to ask for people to behave appropriately and considerately, and to take people's concerns seriously when they express them, then you're not going to get very far.

I don't want to imply that Dogsmilk is the worst offender, because (s)he certainly isn't, I've done the same with other people and it was always completely pointless.
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
Last Edit: 29 Dec 2012 23:37 by wake_up_bomb.
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 23:41 #78

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dogsmilk wrote:
When do you expect this particular shit to hit the fan Andy? I want to know if I'll be dead or if I'm going to be working until I'm 90.

:killinme: :killinme:
Heh, depends how long they can kick the can down the road like they have been doing or if they can introduce digital money which would ironically enough be a 'solution' so to speak.

Let say they do nothing and things continue as they are then perhaps 10 years tops.

If we go digital then 20 years tops as socialism will have to die at that point.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 23:46 #79

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psketti wrote:
dogsmilk wrote:

I don't know about anyone else, but I think forums are fucking boring and lacking in stimulation if it's all Oooh you're sooo right, I agree so totally with everything you say all the time.

Can't argue with that :)

I'd have to disagree.



Just because.
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Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 23:47 #80

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
I don't want to imply that Dogsmilk is the worst offender, because (s)he certainly isn't, I've done the same with other people and it was always completely pointless.

And how - exactly - have I "offended"...?
Last Edit: 29 Dec 2012 23:47 by dogsmilk.
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