WUB, it does appear that you're advocating a system of top-down moderation mate...

andyh wrote:
That's me fucked then. Still - maybe the grey panthers will have their day...

Though I thought socialism had died by the end of the 80s anyway.

diamondgeezer wrote: I'm not advocating anything, I'm just saying that challenging other people's behaviour, or even expressing the opinion that they might have been antagonistic, is pointless because they don't accept even the possibility that they might be in the wrong. I had exactly the same reaction when talking about I_Am's anti-Icke stuff, he paid absolutely no attention to me whatsoever (again, he's an intelligent and good contributor, it's nothing against him personally), got a bit irate, and carried on posting it again in the future. So I won't do it any more.

dogsmilk wrote:
Nah we still have it here.
You can still get a state pension for example and you still have the NHS.
Thats what I call socialism. It won't exist for much longer if they keep things going as they are quite simply because it cannot exist.
They'll have to start sacrificing a lot more than just introducing higher tax rates. They simply won't make ends meet.
Thats the whole point to wub's ongoing threads basically. I see us suffering before the rich do, so....

wake_up_bomb wrote:
Look, I'm not trying to be intentionally contentious with you here, but...

What you state above works both ways mate. Its a forum, people will disagree with one another in the belief that they are right, and if circumstances permit, people will chum up into a clique and gang up on others that don't share their point of view (as has so obviously happened on this place)

oioioi wrote:
You are no match for me

diamondgeezer wrote: I wouldn't disagree with you. All I am saying is you can't ask people to moderate themselves, or for the community to participate in this, because no-one pays any attention. You get two responses. "What's it got to do with you?" and / or "I don't agree with you, so I'm just going to carry on regardless".

diamondgeezer wrote:
It's not Friday, you'll have to wait 6 days if you want us all to chew on that old bone.

wake_up_bomb wrote:
Thats exactly what the SZ asks isn't it?

wake_up_bomb wrote:
Until a couple of days ago I may have agreed with you but I'm inclined to think all the regular posters are approachable enough, especially if they see that's the general vibe/clique.

Personally I'd rather see any grievances anyone has about anyone posted publicly, others may prefer to it directly via PM, in the interests of community I personally think it's better if issues are dealt with as community issues rather than personal ones.

diamondgeezer wrote: Well, let's not have a big philosophical discussion about it, that's been done! There is one thing I would have done differently, but that doesn't matter. All I am saying is I'm not going to do this any more because it just causes annoyance and nothing good comes of it.

As I've said before, I totally appreciate you lot setting the forum up, I very much enjoy it for the most part.

wake_up_bomb wrote:
A thread about "So n so said such n such and I don't think it's appropriate for this community" if not leading to a consensus will definitely lead to the community having an awareness of one of it's members feelings and have the opportunity to express theirs.

wake_up_bomb wrote:
Just to clarify tho, SZ does ask that its members moderate themselves right?

Lets not swerve the issue eh..

oioioi wrote: I understand your point. I think people just want to say what they want and don't much care what other people think. That is, after all, basic freedom of speech. I don't want to make a big issue out of it. I just think the atmosphere of the site has been really good and I don't want to see it descend into the usual forum fare. I guess everyone has a different idea of what this is, but I don't view it as entirely coincidental that Dub said what he did the other day.

diamondgeezer wrote: I never swerve the issue! I understand why you set up the TZ, and I don't disagree with your basic assertion regarding some moderation being required. I don't think I've ever said any different. I would have had one different policy here, as I've said previously, but we've already discussed that so I don't see any point in doing so again. I don't think you can have a solely community-driven site unless everyone takes equal responsibility, which is impossible here, so I'm realistic about that. I was, and am, happy with the way things are run here.

And in a way I agree with Dubs and yourself, and obviously I enjoy a good bit of foul mouthed banter. I don't think I've outright abused anyone for months now I think about it....anyway, what dubs has done is decided to focus on a fairly unused part of the forum. I think that can only benefit dubs and the forum. I suppose my point is there's room enough here for a bit of what everyone wants/needs from a forum, it's just how we stop overspill(which I'm as guilty as any of).

wake_up_bomb wrote:
Fair nuff mate.

Just one thing tho, I honestly don't recall any discussions regarding the 'one different policy' you mention you would have liked to see. Perhaps a pm to refresh my memory?

andyh wrote:
What absolute rubbish. You have no idea why he really left, so please don't pretend that you do.

@wub and Oi

Yeah it's fair to say that part of my reasoning for withdrawing to the areas of the site concerning self help, community building etc does involve what I perceive to be the 'usual forum fare' having crept in over recent times. I allowed myself to be involved in it and then went, hang on what the icke am I doing? I see it as totally counterproductive on so many levels. If I wanted that sort of stuff I could just go to 4chan or somewhere.
I've still been reading some of the stuff out here where people hang out though and have to say that of course I totally get where wub is coming from. I personally don't think DM was being antagonistic in his debate with andy but antagonism certainly does exist here and it sucks. How the fucking hell RA hasn't been shown the door is testament to either the unlimited patience of SZers or SZers inability to community moderate, dunno which. That said, I myself have been throwing the C word about recently and tbh I should have been kicked off too. It was way outside the forum rules, hurtful and counter productive.

I'm off back to the comfy sofa in the Local Communities section now.