Sanctum Zone

Keyword
A+ A A-
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: This is What we Have to Look Forward to

This is What we Have to Look Forward to 27 Dec 2012 15:22 #1

  • wake_up_bomb
  • wake_up_bomb's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 5063
  • Thank you received: 4418
  • Karma: 56
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/26/ger...y-foreign-care-homes
Germany 'exporting' old and sick to foreign care homes

Pensioners are being sent to care homes in eastern Europe and Asia in an austerity move dismissed as 'inhumane deportation'

Growing numbers of elderly and sick Germans are being sent overseas for long-term care in retirement and rehabilitation centres because of rising costs and falling standards in Germany.

The move, which has seen thousands of retired Germans rehoused in homes in eastern Europe and Asia, has been severely criticised by social welfare organisations who have called it "inhumane deportation".

But with increasing numbers of Germans unable to afford the growing costs of retirement homes, and an ageing and shrinking population, the number expected to be sent abroad in the next few years is only likely to rise. Experts describe it as a "time bomb".

Germany's chronic care crisis – the care industry suffers from lack of workers and soaring costs – has for years been mitigated by eastern Europeans migrating to Germany in growing numbers to care for the country's elderly.

But the transfer of old people to eastern Europe is being seen as a new and desperate departure, indicating that even with imported, cheaper workers, the system is unworkable.

Germany has one of the fastest-ageing populations in the world, and the movement here has implications for other western countries, including Britain, particularly amid fears that austerity measures and rising care costs are potentially undermining standards of residential care.

The Sozialverband Deutschland (VdK), a German socio-political advisory group, said the fact that growing numbers of Germans were unable to afford the costs of a retirement home in their own country sent a huge "alarm signal". It has called for political intervention.

"We simply cannot let those people who built Germany up to be what it is, who put their backbones into it all their lives, be deported," said VdK's president, Ulrike Mascher. "It is inhumane."

Researchers found an estimated 7,146 German pensioners living in retirement homes in Hungary in 2011. More than 3,000 had been sent to homes in the Czech Republic, and there were more than 600 in Slovakia. There are also unknown numbers in Spain, Greece and Ukraine. Thailand and the Philippines are also attracting increasing numbers.

The Guardian spoke to retired Germans and people needing long-term care living in homes in Hungary, Thailand and Greece, some of whom said that they were there out of choice, because the costs were lower – on average between a third and two-thirds of the price in Germany – and because of what they perceived as better standards of care.

But others were evidently there reluctantly.

The Guardian also found a variety of healthcare providers were in the process of building or just about to open homes overseas dedicated to the care of elderly Germans in what is clearly perceived in the industry to be a growing and highly profitable market.

According to Germany's federal bureau of statistics, more than 400,000 senior citizens are currently unable to afford a German retirement home, a figure that is growing by around 5% a year.

The reasons are rising care home costs – which average between €2,900 and €3,400 (£2,700) a month, stagnating pensions, and the fact that people are more likely to need care as they get older.

As a result, the Krankenkassen or statutory insurers that make up Germany's state insurance system are openly discussing how to make care in foreign retirement homes into a long-term workable financial model.

In Asia, and eastern and southern Europe, care workers' pay and other expenses such as laundry, maintenance and not least land and building costs, are often much lower.

Today, European Union law prevents state insurers from signing contracts directly with overseas homes, but that is likely to change as legislators are forced to find ways to respond to Europe's ageing population.

The lack of legislation has not stopped retired people or their families from opting for foreign homes if their pensions could cover the costs.

But critics of the move have voiced particular worries about patients with dementia, amid concern that they are being sent abroad on the basis that they will not know the difference.

Sabine Jansen, head of Germany's Alzheimer Society, said that surroundings and language were often of paramount importance to those with dementia looking to cling to their identity.

"In particular, people with dementia can find it difficult to orientate themselves in a wholly other culture with a completely different language, because they're very much living in an old world consisting of their earlier memories," she said.

With Germany's population expected to shrink from almost 82 million to about 69 million by 2050, one in every 15 – about 4.7 million people – are expected to be in need of care, meaning the problem of provision is only likely to worsen.

Willi Zylajew, an MP with the conservative Christian Democrats and a care service specialist, said it would be increasingly necessary to consider foreign care.

"Considering the imminent crisis, it would be judicious to at least start thinking about alternative forms of care for the elderly," he said.

Christel Bienstein, a nursing scientist from the University of Witten/Herdecke, said many German care homes had reached breaking point due to lack of staff, and that care standards had dropped as a result.

"On average each patient is given only around 53 minutes of individual care every day, including feeding them," she said. "Often there are 40 to 60 residents being looked after by just one carer."

Artur Frank, the owner of Senior Palace, which finds care homes for Germans in Slovakia, said that was why it was wrong to suggest senior citizens were being "deported" abroad, as the VdK described it.

"They are not being deported or expelled," he said. "Many are here of their own free will, and these are the results of sensible decisions by their families who know they will be better off."

He said he had seen "plenty of examples of bad care" in German homes among the 50 pensioners for whom he had already found homes in Slovakia.

"There was one woman who had hardly been given anything to eat or drink, and in Slovakia they had to teach her how to swallow again," he said.

German politicians have shied away from dealing with the subject, largely due to fears of a voter backlash if Germany's state insurers are seen to be financing care workers abroad to the detriment of the domestic care industry.
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: andyh

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 27 Dec 2012 15:35 #2

  • diamondgeezer
  • diamondgeezer's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 3032
  • Thank you received: 1504
  • Karma: 89
What was it Roger Daltry said again... :facepalm:
truth-zone.co.uk/ - the other place...

The pen is mightier than the sword
You must register to post here.

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 27 Dec 2012 15:56 #3

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
An outstanding article which refers to the greying population and low fertility rates I've been talking about :p

The topic will probably be more mainstream in another 20 years or so when people will really start to see it happening.
There'll be no turning it back.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 27 Dec 2012 16:19 #4

  • diamondgeezer
  • diamondgeezer's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 3032
  • Thank you received: 1504
  • Karma: 89
It all comes back to what's so horribly wrong with our 'western' society.

A civilised society doesn't just care for its elderly, it respects and venerates them.
truth-zone.co.uk/ - the other place...

The pen is mightier than the sword
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Hexhammer, mikey mikey, Gilly, hugorune

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 27 Dec 2012 16:48 #5

  • Hexhammer
  • Hexhammer's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Expert Boarder
  • Rank4
  • Posts: 1651
  • Thank you received: 1129
  • Karma: 90
That's how it goes... :( The unproductive old drones of western money machine are put just somewhere to wait for death. It's a disgrace.
The things you leave behind, you find in front of you.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: diamondgeezer

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 27 Dec 2012 17:30 #6

  • martg
  • martg's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Senior Boarder
  • Rank3
  • Posts: 717
  • Thank you received: 512
  • Karma: 40
andyh wrote:
An outstanding article which refers to the greying population and low fertility rates I've been talking about :p

The topic will probably be more mainstream in another 20 years or so when people will really start to see it happening.
There'll be no turning it back.

20 years time?

You have a rosy picture of the future
You must register to post here.

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 27 Dec 2012 20:14 #7

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
martg wrote:
andyh wrote:
An outstanding article which refers to the greying population and low fertility rates I've been talking about :p

The topic will probably be more mainstream in another 20 years or so when people will really start to see it happening.
There'll be no turning it back.

20 years time?

You have a rosy picture of the future

Not rosy.
I'm saying that your average joe who's as thick as 2 short planks on end won't realise what's happened (and has actually been happening since Edward Bernays) until 20 yrs from now.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: mikey mikey

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 27 Dec 2012 21:13 #8

  • mikey mikey
  • mikey mikey's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 6518
  • Thank you received: 3378
  • Karma: 23
thank you St Jude for favours granted
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: andyh

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 27 Dec 2012 22:38 #9

  • The Apprentice
  • The Apprentice's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Voluntarily Inactive
  • Rank0
  • Posts: 872
  • Thank you received: 360
  • Karma: 16
Please forgive me guys, I must have gone soft in the heed or something, but we are headingm towards this old cronie wasting ground quite quickly and never really try to realise that there is another world all around us.
Just the other day I was round at an 85 year old neighbours putting up some wallpaper that I got from the skips, painted his living room walls, we had real good banter and I learned a lot of what and how they cared for their old ones, guess what, they all died at home happy.

This might not be the case for all old folks, but we must try to start thinking much clearer or our whole is going to be destroyed.

The system is imploding and we are not coming together as we could, it is the majority who kick the dustbin down the road.
.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: dogsmilk

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 28 Dec 2012 22:18 #10

  • dogsmilk
  • dogsmilk's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Expert Boarder
  • Rank4
  • Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke
  • Posts: 1074
  • Thank you received: 811
  • Karma: 10
andyh wrote:
martg wrote:
andyh wrote:
your average joe who's as thick as 2 short planks.

What makes you think the general population are thick? Do you think you're better than regular people or something?
You must register to post here.

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 28 Dec 2012 22:38 #11

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
dogsmilk wrote:
andyh wrote:
martg wrote:
andyh wrote:
your average joe who's as thick as 2 short planks.

What makes you think the general population are thick? Do you think you're better than regular people or something?

Better? No.
Better informed, yes.
Take a look around, its not hard to see.
The UK is itself overpopulated with heavy immigration which only goes to hide whats happening even more, however if you look beyond that and see the big picture you can see that fertility rates are dropping, the population is greying and that our very way of life is under threat. Euro-socialism as it stands cannot continue for long because the greying population will outnumber the incoming new tax payers to support it.

Its a very worrying soylent green type of scenario, we may very well have 'decent death' euthaniasia centres opening up in the near future. Again thats something the normal joe would scoff and laugh at and again like I said, if you're well informed then it is not just probable but inevitable should the current economic paradigm continue.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 09:54 #12

  • dogsmilk
  • dogsmilk's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Expert Boarder
  • Rank4
  • Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke
  • Posts: 1074
  • Thank you received: 811
  • Karma: 10
andyh wrote:
Better? No.
Better informed, yes.
.

If you regard yourself as better informed (about some things), that doesn't make other people thick. The people at the top have a history of regarding themselves as having greater insight and awareness than the bewildered herd and regarding the general population as inherently a bit thick.
Your "average Joe" might be more intelligent than you, they just might not believe the same things, have been exposed to the same influences or not have the time/inclination to think about it because they're too busy trying to earn enough to cover the mortgage and feed their kids.

We're all critical of people who sit drone like in front of the X-Factor or whatever, but I thing it's always worth watching out for the sense of smug superiority it's easy for people to slide into.
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: i-baster

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 11:02 #13

  • diamondgeezer
  • diamondgeezer's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 3032
  • Thank you received: 1504
  • Karma: 89
dogsmilk wrote:
The people at the top have a history of regarding themselves as having greater insight and awareness than the bewildered herd and regarding the general population as inherently a bit thick.

Indeed...
“The receptivity of the masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan.”
― Adolf Hitler
truth-zone.co.uk/ - the other place...

The pen is mightier than the sword
You must register to post here.

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 11:39 #14

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
dogsmilk wrote:
andyh wrote:
Better? No.
Better informed, yes.
.

If you regard yourself as better informed (about some things), that doesn't make other people thick. The people at the top have a history of regarding themselves as having greater insight and awareness than the bewildered herd and regarding the general population as inherently a bit thick.
Your "average Joe" might be more intelligent than you, they just might not believe the same things, have been exposed to the same influences or not have the time/inclination to think about it because they're too busy trying to earn enough to cover the mortgage and feed their kids.

We're all critical of people who sit drone like in front of the X-Factor or whatever, but I thing it's always worth watching out for the sense of smug superiority it's easy for people to slide into.

I disagree tbh.
I count intelligence in terms of street smarts.
If they're not even willing to question whats going on then yes, they're thick alright.
If they can't make themselves self sufficient or for that matter have no interest in it and instead rely on someone else then they're thick.

Its not so much about being smug or anything like that, its just the way the world is, in fact, if it wasn't for billions of thick people then we wouldn't be in the mess we are now. We would have stopped using money long ago, stopped trashing the planet and started respecting each other and the environment. I don't see that happening anytime soon, do you?

Instead, anyone who so much as brings up the topic is either a commie or a conspiracy theorist. Instead you should be watching football or playing on the xbox or a million other useless things. I wouldn't say I'm smug as much as sick and tired of pretending the situation is any different dogsmilk. The people at the top are themselves not much better informed IMHO, I've spoken to plenty.

Hitler himself would not see the advantage in a RBE for example because he would balk at the idea of a decent life for all, as far as the elite are concerned they know no other way of living and that this is the God given way of things. If you want to see any smug arrogance try looking there. It is both the elite and the masses who are as thick as each other which is why the world is fucked up.
There's your conspiracy theory.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 12:01 #15

  • diamondgeezer
  • diamondgeezer's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 3032
  • Thank you received: 1504
  • Karma: 89
The masses aren't thick andy, most are just in denial. As I've said before, fear is a very powerful and effective weapon, and the elite know how to use it very well and have done for a long time.

So they ain't thick either.
truth-zone.co.uk/ - the other place...

The pen is mightier than the sword
You must register to post here.

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 12:07 #16

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
diamondgeezer wrote:
The masses aren't thick andy, most are just in denial. As I've said before, fear is a very powerful and effective weapon, and the elite know how to use it very well and have done for a long time.

So they ain't thick either.

You've overcome it as have plenty others on this forum.

If there's still people now after everything thats happened who are still popping the blue pill then there's something more to it than just denial ;)

Lets face it, the media have gone out of their way to show everyone how the banks are getting bailed out etc yet its still very easy to get people blaming benefit scroungers and immigrants isn't it? So you see...thats not denial, thats truly thick as pig shit m8.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 12:26 #17

  • diamondgeezer
  • diamondgeezer's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 3032
  • Thank you received: 1504
  • Karma: 89
People just don't wan't to be taken out of their daily comfort zone in my experience, not ideal for sure, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are unintelligent.
truth-zone.co.uk/ - the other place...

The pen is mightier than the sword
You must register to post here.

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 12:44 #18

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
diamondgeezer wrote:
People just don't wan't to be taken out of their daily comfort zone in my experience, not ideal for sure, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are unintelligent.

You could have remained with that view prior to 2008, but not since.
After everything thats happened and that has been made public knowledge you can no longer say that such people are in denial.
The evidence is overwhelming I'm afraid, nice to see you have a bit of faith in them but there's a reason why the average IQ is around 100 you know.

Yourself and dogsmilk are welcome to think whatever you like, just bear in mind so am I and I've explained why I have the opinion I do which tbh seems quite rational given the evidence at hand. Even the LIBOR scandal flew over their heads, it didn't with max keiser or wub because they're intelligent, simple as.

Intelligence questions. Thats the nature of the beast :)
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 13:02 #19

  • diamondgeezer
  • diamondgeezer's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Gold Boarder
  • Rank5
  • Posts: 3032
  • Thank you received: 1504
  • Karma: 89
Does being aware of just how shit the world situation is, and questioning it, analysing it, dwelling on it, when really there is nothing you can do to change it as an individual, make you happy?
truth-zone.co.uk/ - the other place...

The pen is mightier than the sword
You must register to post here.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jhado

Re: This is What we Have to Look Forward to 29 Dec 2012 13:09 #20

  • andyh
  • andyh's Avatar
  • ZONED OUT
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Rank6
  • Posts: 10337
  • Thank you received: 3545
  • Karma: 62
diamondgeezer wrote:
Does being aware of just how shit the world situation is, and questioning it, analysing it, dwelling on it, when really there is nothing you can do to change it as an individual, make you happy?

Yes and no.
Yes in the sense that I know that there are solutions out there and yes in the sense that I can improve my own situation a little from the info I've gathered. I can ofc also help those who do question, they are few but by no means everyone ffs lol :)

No of course in the sense that as you say, the big picture cannot be changed by an individual but I'd rather see life for what it is than some marketing opiate for the masses. Its like soma without the pills :D
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
You must register to post here.
Moderators: psketti, oioioi, batou
Time to create page: 0.174 seconds

Latest Members Blogs

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Prev Next

What is going on when it comes to 9-11 I…

The EPA (environmental protection agency) and OSHA took air samples in the days following September 11th, they reported that they found no excessive levels of asbestos contrary to other findings....

Read more

9-11 Eleven Years Later

9-11 Eleven Years Later

With the anniversary of September 11th literally just around the corner, unanswered questions still remain for families who lost loved ones during the tragic event, as well as from families...

Read more

Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass An…

Strange Noises, Possible Link to Mass Animal Deaths

In 2008 the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to review a series of lower court rulings that restrict the United States Navy's use of sonar in submarine detection training exercises off...

Read more

Annual Server Target

Whether its 50 cents or five dollars, your donations are appreciated and help keep this community site running so we can all continue to enjoy using it.
This target is to meet our server cost for one year, June 2020 - May 2021, in USD.
$ 340 - Target
( £ 250 GBP )
donation thermometer
donation thermometer
$ 192 - Raised
( £ 140 GBP )
donation thermometer
56%
Most Recent Donation:
$122 USD on 4th Jan 2021
Bitcoin Address: bc1q0kazqya0nurfxtunxv807vm0m8852nnrrk8mj8
 
Ethereum Address: 0xe69915c80dd75df19f438d556267e04f932f057d
 
More Info: Donation options for TZ

No one is obliged to donate, please only donate what you can afford. Even the smallest amount helps. Being an active member is a positive contribution. Thank You.

TradeZone Latest

Visitors

Today990
Yesterday4432
Week990
Month25925
Total1124349

Your IP Address: 216.73.217.112 Your Browser and OS: Unknown - Unknown Monday, 24 August 2026 07:49

Who Is Online

Guests : 777 guests online Members : No members online
© 2012 – 2021 Sanctum Zone | All rights reserved. This website is a place for people to express and discuss their views on the news and world events. DISCLAIMER: Please Note: Views expressed and submitted by contributors are their own personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions and beliefs of the Sanctum Zone website and its founder(s) , administrators , moderators , and any other website maintenance technicians, personnel and volunteers. Articles and messages posted on this website and forum are solely the opinion of their authors.

Login or Register

LOG IN

Register

User Registration
or Cancel