angelchemuel wrote:
They can screw us several ways here.
They can inflate the currency, close banks, tax us to pieces, cut off benefits, you name it.
We the people will only 'win' this game if we all choose to abandon money and co-operate.

The plan of the guys at the top (if they have one) is to go 100% digital with the money. It doesn't matter what its called or indeed if the euro even exists, once they go digital they have their one world currency and the bankers will have won a global coup.

I hear what you say Andy, and agree on the digital part. However in my book, if that is their ultimate goal then digital = blackmarket....people are people and there will be very little cooperation only each man for himself.

Maybe this is a possibility? It will hand back the power to the people.....


Getting back to Cyprus. Their finance chappy is off to Moscow today. He was supposed to go on Monday, but it got knocked back to today. Now, I heard this on Monday, and my radar said watch this space for a deal with the Ruskies. Well the latest 'roumours' are that there are 5 Russian businessmen prepared to fund the two Cyprus banks in question....in return for drilling rights to the gas. No wonder those battleships are on their way over there! Anyway, somewhere in the mix the Israelis are laying claim to that there gas too! It now seems to me that there have been some very clever chess manouvers been made by the Russians.

Jane

Telegraph......

A pledge from the church of Cyprus to put it's entire wealth up in support of the Islands economy. The offer extends to mortgaging it's vast property portfolio to buy government bonds. While Archbishop Chrysostomos declined to estimate how much this would raise, as the Islands largest landowner it could be significant.

In addition to his vow to help the economy he said "Parliaments 'no' vote sent a strong message that you can't mess around with the little guy".

angelchemuel wrote:
You can't really have a black market with 100% digital currency because every single transaction is traced...and taxed.
Scared yet? :/

The only way you could avoid this is to use a separate currency, so this boils down to barter or bitcoin but bitcoin is extremely limited, it's going to get farmed to pieces shortly when some new kit comes out for the job in april. Its not really everyones cup of tea, you're going to see guys with rigs specially designed for mining bitcoins at ludicrous speeds who will corner the market. Home PC's are useless for the job.

pheony wrote:
Most of the moneys tied up in bank shares, if the country defaults it'll all be useless ofc.
So its deffo in the chuch interest that it doesn't lol

pheony wrote:
Just found this link...
www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/03/19/294355/...pes-economic-stance/
It wont allow me to copy/paste/quote unfortunately.
It is a MUST read....especially the bit of the Jesuits link to Russia and their seeming growing interest in China...the article has got me thinking outside the 'msm box' and has joined a lot of dots, even down to the possibility of why Queenie and Cameron didn't attend the Popes innauguration. It will throw an insight to what is going on 'behind the scenes' in Cyprus although not mentioning it specifically.

Jane

PS @Andy....no I'm not scared. scared = fear = bullies....I don't do or entertain any of them, I really don't

angelchemuel wrote:
I suppose its pointless to fret about it yet as its not happened.
If it does happen then we'll have to come up with ways around it. It won't be easy.

andyh wrote:
That's what I like to hear!
Hence the reason for my above link....know thine enemy, befriend your saviour.

Jane

angelchemuel wrote: I didn't know that, but I think your conclusion makes perfect sense.

It's totally true, in my opinion, that one possible intention of this could have been to cause a bank run. But here is how I feel about it. What are the chances of a bank run in the UK, when no-one is paying attention to the news? Let alone understand the real consequences of it. This thread has instantly become one of the biggest ever in the news section because we all understand the potential consequences of this, not to mention the precedent that is being set. Most people don't.

And it's important to emphasise that it is unprecedented. I'm sure you would get someone that knows a shedload about economic history that could give you some example of when something similar had happened in the past. But in terms of the modern financial system and the IMF being involved, they've never imposed these sort of punitive measures before. In Argentina, they froze everyone's bank account and limited the amount that could be taken out for months. When I used to write about that, I always considered that to be an extreme measure, and there were extreme consequences. There were tanks on the street, months of rioting and looting, soup kitchens all over the place, banks were absolutely smashed up, tear gas fired at the public, etc. But even then there was no proposal to rob anyone's savings. In this case, they're still seriously talking about taking 15%, and the IMF went into the meeting proposing 40%, and Christine Lagarde has confirmed that she approved this. And I think it's important to note that they came up with all this money laundering bullshit later on, but the primary justification for this is stated here:

www.forbes.com/sites/abrambrown/2013/03/...an-financial-crisis/
And now they're saying, "oh, don't worry, though, no-one else's deposits are under threat". Which is exactly what the Cypriots were told 24 hours before their bank accounts were frozen. Which they still are. But the reality is that no such guarantees can be made. They can sit there all day long saying "Cyprus is a unique case", but every other European nation is in a similar position. That's why they all went to the IMF in the first place. They can't offer any such guarantees with any credibility because they've already claimed that adding more debt to create growth, re-packaging the debt, printing more money, creating greater integration, having budgets managed by the EU commission, etc, will solve the problem. Now they're claiming that they need to rob savings in order to reduce the level of debt of one nation, but that it's an isolated case. It's complete bullshit. Certainly there are strong indications that they're going to go after Italy next.

So there is no bank in Europe that can guarantee that they won't freeze your account. They can say that they won't, but they can't guarantee it because (a) this is precisely what was promised to the Cypriots, and (b) you can absolutely bet your bottom dollar that very similar economic conditions to Cyprus exist within the nation that the bank is located, wherever it may be. Also, not every nation is going to have a load of natural gas that they can sell off to find an escape route out of the situation, which could yet be the road Cyprus goes down. If Britain was in Cyprus' situation, they would either have to default, rapidly devalue the pound, or completely go along with the IMF.

So I think under these circumstances it is at least wise to give yourself something to fall back on.

i heard Russian businessmen are planning to make deals for Cypriot gas reserves and the 2 main problem banks anyone heard anything?

Mike wrote:
There are indeed rumours of that yes, although nothing specific or voted on yet.

This situation has basically come about because of political hand wringing for so long, indeed suspiciously long.
The announcement sets a legal first as far as I'm concerned WUB because this is directly dipping into what were supposed to be protected accounts, since then it has been announced that this only covers insolvent banks not insolvent nation states...lol
This is ALSO a euro country, if it goes then there's a pile of other debt tied in that goes with it.

Greece is just waiting for the final straw and this would be it IMHO. Then ofc if Greece goes the bloody rest goes along with it like a massive house of cards one after the other because they all have each other by the bloody balls.

Mike wrote:
There's talk here of the Greek bank 'absorbing' the Cypriot ones if they crash. Best case scenario from where I am sitting is there's a lot of posturing going on from various parties interested in the gas reserves, and perhaps more importantly, which route it takes out of Cyprus, via Crete and/or Greece or via Turkey. I'm concerned that the old Greek/Turkish Cypriot split is going to be used somehow to engineer a 'desired outcome', I just hope the desired outcome is the greatest boost any economy can receive, a bloody war!

Its hilarious to watch because lets face it, no matter what loan cyrprus is given they cannot ever ever pay it back, its mission impossible to its money down the toilet.
Is the gas worth more than the loan to bail it out?

Thats the question the russians have to ask lol :p

The EU are asking themselves how much longer down the road they can kick the can and if the german ppl will revolt if theres yet another bailout lmfao.
Fucked if they do, fucked if they don't.

Its sooo funny watching all these people in absolute denial of simple mathematics.

I think the whole thing's sad and frightening rather than funny.

Gilly wrote:
Its sad that its come to this Gilly but this is where the irresistible force (FR banking system) meets immovable object (laws of mathematics lol)

The bitcoin is shooting through the ceiling by the way.
While we watch all this its on its way past $65 now.

andyh wrote: I totally agree, I'm just a bit loath to say it because you always get some pedantic economics professor coming along saying "actually, in Prussia in 1843...".

Gilly wrote:
What's sad to me Gilly is that from the top dogs down to Joe Bloggs we have all been motivated by greed and an I'm all right Jack attitude. What's also sad as we all agree here I'm sure, is the frightening ammount of people who are walking around wearing rose tinted glasses and totally disconected from their humanity. What's frightening is the panic that all these headless chickens will be doing when reality comes crashing through their front doors.

So to read around and get as much information as one can is a good thing to do, it disipates the fear and prepares you better.
As to the sense of humour.....come on girl...it's a Brit thing....you gorra laugh or you'd cry, and in its own funny way gives us a reality check.
Not having a go, just don't want you fraying at the edges......we all have to stand together now.

Jane

angelchemuel wrote:
It is actually a good thing in a sense.
Everyones going to learn some hard lessons from it, whether the 'fix' is going to be a step in the right direction is another thing altogether.
Theres only so much debt drug the junkie body can take before it od's.

angelchemuel wrote:
I can assure you I'm not fraying at the edges, Jane, but find all those people's predicament to be anything but funny. I'm not having a go either, but it's just not funny to me. And I don't agree that everyone down to Joe Bloggs has been motivated by greed. A lot of people effected have probably just attempted to get through life as best they can, and I don't see that they deserve to be in the crap for that.