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TOPIC: Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone

Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 18:47 #321

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Gilly wrote:
angelchemuel wrote:
Gilly wrote:
I think the whole thing's sad and frightening rather than funny. :(

What's sad to me Gilly is that from the top dogs down to Joe Bloggs we have all been motivated by greed and an I'm all right Jack attitude. What's also sad as we all agree here I'm sure, is the frightening ammount of people who are walking around wearing rose tinted glasses and totally disconected from their humanity. What's frightening is the panic that all these headless chickens will be doing when reality comes crashing through their front doors.

So to read around and get as much information as one can is a good thing to do, it disipates the fear and prepares you better.
As to the sense of humour.....come on girl...it's a Brit thing....you gorra laugh or you'd cry, and in its own funny way gives us a reality check.
Not having a go, just don't want you fraying at the edges......we all have to stand together now.
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I can assure you I'm not fraying at the edges, Jane, but find all those people's predicament to be anything but funny. I'm not having a go either, but it's just not funny to me. And I don't agree that everyone down to Joe Bloggs has been motivated by greed. A lot of people effected have probably just attempted to get through life as best they can, and I don't see that they deserve to be in the crap for that.

Very true.
Its coming home by the way so get ready for it. We're blessed with some time to sort ourselves out.
I don't think the UK's position of not using the Euro will help. In fact I think the recent budget was just a softener for what they know is to come.

By the way cyrprus banks are staying closed til Tuesday next week now.

www.independent.ie/business/world/cyprus...uesday-29144109.html

Oh and 'meehall' martin is 'critical' of it now..LMAO

EDIT: Watch the video, watch the guy there now start a bank run here by starting to tell people that they will feel worried in Ireland,Portugal,Spain etc.
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Last Edit: 20 Mar 2013 18:51 by andyh.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 19:20 #322

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www.guardian.co.uk/news/video/2013/mar/1...risis-eurozone-video

See 1:40 onwards. This guy has been on AJ's show BTW. It looks like nothing big will happen until next week at least:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21855163
Cyprus banks shut until Tuesday amid scramble for Plan B
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Last Edit: 20 Mar 2013 19:31 by wake_up_bomb.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 19:40 #323

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Cyprus' offshore energy fields

The 13 exploratory energy blocks south of Cyprus could hold gas reserves of as much as 60 trillion cubic feet, the head of Kretyk, the country's state hydrocarbons company said.
That would be worth about 475bn euros at today's prices according to Bloomberg.
Noble Energy granted first contract to explore Block 12 in October 2008.
Unresolved conflict with Turkey over issue of national sovereignty surrounds the field, dubbed Aphrodite, with Ankara objecting to tenders issued by Cyprus.

:roll:
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 19:44 #324

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pheony wrote:
Sky news are reporting on this quite well. The people in Cyprus are starting to take to the streets. A couple said, "This is third world war from Germany".

From the Irish Times.......
The Irish government welcomed the agreement, describing it as a "positive development for Cyprus, the euro zone as a whole and Ireland".

www.independent.ie/business/world/cyprus...uesday-29144109.html

Oh and 'meehall' martin is 'critical' of it now..LMAO

EDIT: Watch the video, watch the guy there now start a bank run here by starting to tell people that they will feel worried in Ireland,Portugal,Spain etc.

Hmmf.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 20:05 #325

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Cross Talk with Peter Levelle on RT...very good
rt.com/shows/crosstalk/cyprus-bailout-financial-markets-497/

@ Gilly. I agree that the people's situation in Cyprus is getting far, far worse, as the next few days will show, and yes I do feel for them.

I should have taken more time to explain my greed comment, but it meant going back historically. I am willing to bet that the majority of us here have had loans/HP (remember them!)/credit cards "Access, Your Flexible Friend" etc either now or in the past. We bought into the whole borrow now pay later thing, all because we WANT 'IT' NOW.
A lot of people effected have probably just attempted to get through life as best they can, and I don't see that they deserve to be in the crap for that.
....if that is directed at me, please show where in this thread I have suggested that people deserve this. I have always maintained and used the word theft about all this and have nowhere suggested that it is the peeps fault. If that is just a general comment, then I totally agree with you.
Just wanted to clarify my stance is all.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 20:19 #326

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angelchemuel wrote:
Cross Talk with Peter Levelle on RT...very good
rt.com/shows/crosstalk/cyprus-bailout-financial-markets-497/

@ Gilly. I agree that the people's situation in Cyprus is getting far, far worse, as the next few days will show, and yes I do feel for them.

I should have taken more time to explain my greed comment, but it meant going back historically. I am willing to bet that the majority of us here have had loans/HP (remember them!)/credit cards "Access, Your Flexible Friend" etc either now or in the past. We bought into the whole borrow now pay later thing, all because we WANT 'IT' NOW.
A lot of people effected have probably just attempted to get through life as best they can, and I don't see that they deserve to be in the crap for that.
....if that is directed at me, please show where in this thread I have suggested that people deserve this. I have always maintained and used the word theft about all this and have nowhere suggested that it is the peeps fault. If that is just a general comment, then I totally agree with you.
Just wanted to clarify my stance is all.
:jane:
Jane

It was a general comment, though any holier than thou comments by people about credit tend to get on my nerves a bit, generally, because there are situations where it's the only way to go. Such as if you need a decent car to get you to work so that you can earn a living. Wait till you've saved the funds, and you won't have a job to go to, in many cases. Buy a banger that you can afford to pay cash for, and it can end up being both unreliable for the purpose you bought it for, and damned expensive in the long run - a false economy. There are other eg's too, which I won't bother going into. The popular assumption that people just go into debt because of greed & lack of self-discipline isn't always correct but seems to make some think they have the right to look down on others. (Again, that's my opinion, and not aimed at anyone as a jibe, but rather a general observation).

PS I don't think you'd be likely to be celebrating anyone's hardship. :)
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Last Edit: 20 Mar 2013 20:27 by Gilly.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 20:39 #327

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I bought a car for 400 quid.
Gets me into work just fine, no loan needed :p
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 20:46 #328

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andyh wrote:
I bought a car for 400 quid.
Gets me into work just fine, no loan needed :p

Good for you. It's not the norm though is it!
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 20:57 #329

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Gilly wrote:
andyh wrote:
I bought a car for 400 quid.
Gets me into work just fine, no loan needed :p

Good for you. It's not the norm though is it!

Actually yes it is the norm.
Theres far more bangers on the road than brand new cars.
Anything up to say 1500 quid for example would be a cash buy. A fair amount of people can manage that without a loan.
There's adverts for them all over the place and some cars are quite roadworthy in the price range and some are easily maintained and/or repaired if not. It doesn't take too much effort imho.

No need to go and get a bank loan (or worse still HP bubble repeater forever) of say 20 or 30k, its obviously a complete waste.
If you spent 1000 quid on a car every single year you'd still end up way short of that kind of money on the lifetime of the new one (thats providing you actually pay the loan off of course) and the warranty sure as hell will not last that long either.

So really its a no brainer isn't it?
Buy em and scrap em, problem solved.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 21:06 #330

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andyh wrote:
Gilly wrote:
andyh wrote:
I bought a car for 400 quid.
Gets me into work just fine, no loan needed :p

Good for you. It's not the norm though is it!

Actually yes it is the norm.
Theres far more bangers on the road than brand new cars.
Anything up to say 1500 quid for example would be a cash buy. A fair amount of people can manage that without a loan.
There's adverts for them all over the place and some cars are quite roadworthy in the price range and some are easily maintained and/or repaired if not. It doesn't take too much effort imho.

No need to go and get a bank loan (or worse still HP bubble repeater forever) of say 20 or 30k, its obviously a complete waste.
If you spent 1000 quid on a car every single year you'd still end up way short of that kind of money on the lifetime of the new one (thats providing you actually pay the loan off of course) and the warranty sure as hell will not last that long either.

So really its a no brainer isn't it?
Buy em and scrap em, problem solved.

Not when you've known loads of people who've bought 'bargains' that have lasted them 2 minutes, & cost a fortune in repairs, and they don't have the spare cash to keep replacing them, Andy, no it isn't a 'no brainer'. Particularly if there's a lot of daily travel involved.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 21:13 #331

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Latest from Reuters
By Michele Kambas and Lidia Kelly

NICOSIA/MOSCOW | Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:46pm EDT

NICOSIA/MOSCOW (Reuters) - Cyprus extended a bank lockdown to next week and considered nationalizing pension funds on Wednesday, scrambling to avert a financial meltdown after rejecting the terms of a bailout from the European Union and turning to Russia for a lifeline.

With crisis talks dragging into the night, the ruling party, Democratic Rally, warned time was running out:

"We don't have days or weeks, we have only hours to save our country," deputy leader Averos Neophytou told reporters.

Banks, shut since the weekend, are to stay closed for the rest of the week and so not reopen till Tuesday after a holiday weekend, a government official told Reuters, extending the misery of Cypriot businesses already feeling the pinch.

With Finance Minister Michael Sarris in Moscow, Russia's finance ministry said Cyprus had sought a further 5 billion euros, on top of a five-year extension and lower interest on an existing 2.5-billion euro loan from Moscow. Russia has a special interest, since many of its citizens keep savings in Cyprus.

In a vote on Tuesday, the island's tiny legislature threw out a proposed tax on bank deposits in exchange for a 10-billion euro bailout from the EU, a stunning rejection of the kind of strict austerity accepted over the past three years by crisis-hit Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain and Italy.

The EU demand has exposed tensions with Moscow over how to keep Cyprus afloat. Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said the bloc had behaved "like a bull in a china shop" and compared its proposals, which would force Russian customers to contribute to the rescue of Cypriot banks, to Soviet-era confiscations.

But the European Central Bank kept the pressure on, warning that it would have to pull the plug on Cyprus unless the country took a bailout quickly.

"We can provide emergency liquidity only to solvent banks and ... the solvency of Cypriot banks cannot be assumed if an aid program is not agreed on soon, which would allow for a quick recapitalization of the banking sector," Joerg Asmussen, the bank's chief negotiator on Cyprus, told German weekly Die Zeit in an interview late on Tuesday.

Despite the looming threat of default and a banking collapse, Cypriots on Tuesday balked at EU demands for a levy on bank deposits to raise 5.8 billion euros, an unprecedented measure that opponents said would have violated the principle behind an EU-wide guarantee on deposits of up to 100,000 euros.

LEVY STILL IN PLAY?

The government said a "Plan B" was in the works, with conservative President Nicos Anastasiades - elected last month on a mandate to secure a bailout - locked in meetings with party leaders, ministers and officials from the troika of EU, ECB and International Monetary Fund lenders.

Lawmaker Marios Mavrides told Reuters one option under discussion was to nationalize pension funds of semi-government corporations, which hold between 2 billion and 3 billion euros.

An opposition politician present at the talks said: "The idea is we can get the pension funds of organizations like the Cyprus Telecoms Organisation and the Electricity Authority, maybe some others as well, and raise two to three billion euros.

"If we raise half of the money then maybe we could top up to the 5.8 billion euro amount by passing the Cypriot banks into Russian hands."

Also on the table was a proposal to issue a bond on the basis of state assets, including future gas revenues. Some officials spoke of combining such measures with a levy on bank deposits, though at a lower level than originally planned.

Cyprus Energy Minister George Lakkotrypis was also in Moscow, officially for a tourism exhibition, but fuelling talk that access to untapped offshore gas reserves could be on the table as part of a deal for Russian aid.

"We've underscored how difficult the situation is," Sarris said after talks with his Russian counterpart Anton Siluanov. "We'll now continue our discussion to find the solution by which we hope we will be getting some support," he said.

"There were no offers, nothing concrete."

Cyprus is a haven for billions of euros squirreled abroad by Russian businesses and individuals - a factor, too, in the reluctance of Germany and other northern euro zone states to bail out Cypriots without a contribution from bank depositors.

The Cypriot government denied a Greek media report that Cyprus had reached a deal for Russian investors to buy the island's second largest bank, Cyprus Popular, which was taken over by the state last year.

The island's banking sector has been crippled by its exposure to bigger neighbor Greece. Athens said Greek branches of Cypriot banks would also stay shut till the weekend.

SLOWING TRADE

The proposed levy on deposits would have taken nearly 10 percent from accounts over 100,000 euros. Smaller accounts would also have been hit, although the government proposed softening the blow to spare savers with less than 20,000 euros.

Chancellor Angela Merkel, facing an election this year in Europe's main paymaster Germany, said it was up to the Cypriot government to come up with an alternative but it was fair to expect those with savings over 100,000 euros - the normal limit for state deposit insurance - to contribute to a bailout.

The EU has a track record of pressing smaller countries to vote again until they achieve the desired outcome.

There was evidence the bank closure was slowing trade. Several petrol stations were refusing credit cards, insisting on payment in cash.

While taxing even small savers was politically explosive, the Cypriot government had balked at sparing them by imposing a higher tax on big depositors - fearing for an offshore banking business that accounts for a big share of its economy.

The crisis is unprecedented in the history of the divided east Mediterranean island of 1.1 million people, which suffered a war with Turkey and ethnic split in 1974 in which a quarter of its population was displaced. The Turkish-populated north considers itself a separate country, recognized only by Turkey.

With Sarris and Lakkotrypis in Moscow, there was mounting speculation that Russian oil and gas giant Gazprom had mooted its own assistance plan in exchange for exploration rights to Cyprus's offshore gas deposits. A Gazprom spokesman denied any such offer had been made.

European officials were growing increasingly exasperated.

"There is no obligation to accept help," said Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski, whose country does not use the euro. "Cyprus has the possibility of living with its own mistakes."

But the idea of bankruptcy for a member of the euro zone, however small, raises fears for confidence in the currency.

A senior source in the "troika" said dealing with Cyprus was even more frustrating than protracted wrangling with Greece.

"The Greeks wanted to cheat on you all the time, but they knew what they wanted," the source told Reuters.

"The Cypriots are leaving us really confused."

www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/20/us-cy...dUSBRE92G03I20130320
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 21:16 #332

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Gilly wrote:
andyh wrote:
Gilly wrote:
andyh wrote:
I bought a car for 400 quid.
Gets me into work just fine, no loan needed :p

Good for you. It's not the norm though is it!

Actually yes it is the norm.
Theres far more bangers on the road than brand new cars.
Anything up to say 1500 quid for example would be a cash buy. A fair amount of people can manage that without a loan.
There's adverts for them all over the place and some cars are quite roadworthy in the price range and some are easily maintained and/or repaired if not. It doesn't take too much effort imho.

No need to go and get a bank loan (or worse still HP bubble repeater forever) of say 20 or 30k, its obviously a complete waste.
If you spent 1000 quid on a car every single year you'd still end up way short of that kind of money on the lifetime of the new one (thats providing you actually pay the loan off of course) and the warranty sure as hell will not last that long either.

So really its a no brainer isn't it?
Buy em and scrap em, problem solved.

Not when you've known loads of people who've bought 'bargains' that have lasted them 2 minutes, & cost a fortune in repairs, and they don't have the spare cash to keep replacing them, Andy, no it isn't a 'no brainer'. Particularly if there's a lot of daily travel involved.

Then they've not bought a bargain, they bought a lemon and it would've been very obvious :D

I've bought sub 1000 quid cars for a very long time, again and again with no issues.
In fact, I've often sold them on for a profit :)
I still have a fiat panda that I bought for £5000 in 2008. It had 6000km (4000 miles) on the clock.
Its done me 194,000 km since then in just under 5 years. 4 sets of tyres, 2 sets of brake pads, a few oil and filter changes.
Thats it, not even a clutch.

The other car I have is a toyota estima which I got 2 years ago for 900 euro, its done me 60 miles into work and 60 miles back day in day out for a year and a half and then short trips into work for half a year now that I've moved. One set of tyres, rear pads and discs and oil and filter changes. Thats it again.
I got it for 900 cos it has no synchromesh on 3rd gear (you have to double clutch it) few people can do it and its a bloody expensive repair BUT its driveable if you know how to do it...which ofc I do :)

You live and learn Gilly, thats the point of the message I'm getting across. The most ruthless thrive in this world thats the whole point.
Sure it shouldn't be that way (and indeed I don't want it to be that way as I've said again and again), unfortunately it is though.

This is why I learned multiple skills, the economy drove me to it. It 'should' have driven other people to do the same thing but it failed because of easy credit. This is part of the message App and Gris were trying to get across with that 'childerick' word lol btw :p
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 21:20 #333

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Do you make your own shoes too? :P
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 21:29 #334

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We've been using cars that cost around the £1500 mark for the last 15years. The current one is a 14yr old Passat, cost £1200 and now has 200,000 miles on the clock, 80,000 of those we've put on it ourselves. We've had it 4years and it's been a hardy beast of a thing and I'd recommend a second hand one to anyone, regardless of the mileage. ;)
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Last Edit: 20 Mar 2013 21:29 by psketti.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 21:29 #335

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Gilly wrote:
Do you make your own shoes too? :P

Hahaha! No I'm not that bad :D
But I don't need a bank loan for the shoes! :)

I might well do though if the frenzy of bank loans continued on for long enough, prices rise and get stupid very rapidly.
The whole car business is basically subsidized by banks. Its actually not 'economic' to keep on manufacturing cars in the volume we do and just expect people to keep up the balloon payment car swop once every 3-4 years because eventually sometime down the line they're going to demand back the full outstanding amount and people should understand that they'll not be in a position to make that full payment for the car. (thats the HP buyback model)
Of course the adverts don't tell you that except on the radio and even then they get someone to talk so fast even the farmers auctioneer couldn't tell wtf they just said.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 21:30 #336

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psketti wrote:
We've been using cars that cost around the £1500 mark for the last 15years. The current one is a 14yr old Passat, cost £1200 and now has 200,000 miles on the clock, 80,000 of those we've put on it ourselves. We've had it 4years and it's been a hardy beast of a thing and I'd recommend a second hand one to anyone, regardless of the mileage. ;)

Mileage is actually less relevant than service history and not just oil and filter changes if you see what I mean.
Up to a point of course, if its only got a few thousand or less then it can be considered new.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 21:34 #337

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andyh wrote:
psketti wrote:
We've been using cars that cost around the £1500 mark for the last 15years. The current one is a 14yr old Passat, cost £1200 and now has 200,000 miles on the clock, 80,000 of those we've put on it ourselves. We've had it 4years and it's been a hardy beast of a thing and I'd recommend a second hand one to anyone, regardless of the mileage. ;)

Mileage is actually less relevant than service history and not just oil and filter changes if you see what I mean.
Up to a point of course, if its only got a few thousand or less then it can be considered new.

Yeah. It had been a salesmens car who travelled from Scotland to England quite regularly so it had been looked after.
Most people wont go near a car with that kind of mileage though and sometime they're missing a trick as this one proves. Passats are sound cars.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 21:39 #338

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I wouldn't buy a new car because of the immediate dramatic loss in value, but having bought a couple of cheap cars in the past (or I should say, 'lemons' :roll: ) I personally wouldn't do it again. I'm not saying you can't do alright with them, but it can be a gamble, and particularly if you've no know-how. And I'm not having it that a car loan is a flippant thing / act of greed (which is the point I was initially making) so we may have to agree to disagree. And bear in mind too that while £1Kish might be easy for some to afford, others who need immediate transport don't always have that much spare, along with the road tax etc, but can manage the monthly instalment, so it's a (far from perfect) solution.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 21:42 #339

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Gilly wrote:
particularly if you've no know-how.

This is exactly whats missing, easily available credit lead to a situation where people didn't bother to get/pass on the know how as much as they would otherwise.

Also it drove prices up for cars just as it did for houses, indeed the auto makers needed bailing out along with the banks if you recall 2008.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 20 Mar 2013 21:48 #340

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Apart from my last ever UK car (baby to carry, shelled out a grand, got £750 back 2 year later) I never spent more than £500 on a car. My one and only bank loan was for my first car, got a grand loan, bought a lemon for £350, had £650 to keep it on the road until I'd 'bought' it. Had some lovely wheels, Carlton estate 1.8i for £350 which (luckily) was good enough to live in, a VW camper MKII for £300 which more than got me my money back doing the markets and my fave motor, my Yugo Zastava 65a, £200, ragged it to death then got £300 for it to buy the VW :D
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