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TOPIC: Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone

Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 12:00 #41

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Would you agree that in reality using a bank to get a small profit from peoples savings is just greed via investment in unethical business?
naivety attracts evil and evil attracts naivety
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 12:02 #42

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Just caught all this just now.
Thanks to all.

There is no way this is not designed to cause a bank run and the conflict which will certainly ensue.

It's 'game on' eh?


Buckle up Dorothy, Kansas is about to go bye, bye. :fresse:
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 12:08 #43

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Cyprus checks longer closure of banks

A controversial compulsory levy on balances transferred Cyprus into a state of emergency. The government feared a run on the banks. In the country, the anger rises against the Brussels decision.

Fear of a run on the banks: Cyprus government is that the island's banks also hold still closed on Tuesday to forestall a run on the banks. This Cypriot state radio reported after the end of a cabinet meeting in Nicosia on Sunday morning...

...Britons in Cyprus get bank tax refund

The British government wants stationed in Cyprus military and government employees to report the new special levy on banks. This promised to Chancellor George Osborne. "People who do this for our civil service are protected against this bank tax. We will compensate anyone who is affected by this bank tax," said Osborne BBC.

Information on the number of people affected or the amount of potential payments he did not. In Cyprus, some 3000 British soldiers, as well as many government employees are stationed. Tens of thousands of British civilians living on the island.


The full article's here, but I've just pasted stuff we didn't (or I didn't) already know.

translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl...sung-von-Banken.html
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
Last Edit: 17 Mar 2013 12:19 by Gilly.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 12:09 #44

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For the cypriot govt it was basically a case of fucked if they do and fucked if they don't and all because the Germans dragged their heels for long enough to create this scenario.
If the 100,000 or less deposit guarantee is void here then it means they can do the same elsewhere in the EU.

We're f*cking next now :/
There'll be massive queues outside banks, forced bank holidays, looting and rioting in the streets, christ.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 12:10 #45

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Gilly wrote:
Cyprus checks longer closure of banks

A controversial compulsory levy on balances transferred Cyprus into a state of emergency. The government feared a run on the banks. In the country, the anger rises against the Brussels decision.

Fear of a run on the banks: Cyprus government is that the island's banks also hold still closed on Tuesday to forestall a run on the banks. This Cypriot state radio reported after the end of a cabinet meeting in Nicosia on Sunday morning...

...Britons in Cyprus get bank tax refund


...Britons in Cyprus get bank tax refund

The British government wants stationed in Cyprus military and government employees to report the new special levy on banks. This promised to Chancellor George Osborne. "People who do this for our civil service are protected against this bank tax. We will compensate anyone who is affected by this bank tax," said Osborne BBC.

Information on the number of people affected or the amount of potential payments he did not. In Cyprus, some 3000 British soldiers, as well as many government employees are stationed. Tens of thousands of British civilians living on the island.


The full article's here, but I've just pasted stuff we didn't (or I didn't) already know.

translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl...sung-von-Banken.html

What did I say ? :)
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 12:11 #46

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Yes, you were right, Andy. The calculating bastards!
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 12:26 #47

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andyh wrote:
Gilly wrote:
Cyprus checks longer closure of banks

A controversial compulsory levy on balances transferred Cyprus into a state of emergency. The government feared a run on the banks. In the country, the anger rises against the Brussels decision.

Fear of a run on the banks: Cyprus government is that the island's banks also hold still closed on Tuesday to forestall a run on the banks. This Cypriot state radio reported after the end of a cabinet meeting in Nicosia on Sunday morning...

...Britons in Cyprus get bank tax refund


...Britons in Cyprus get bank tax refund

The British government wants stationed in Cyprus military and government employees to report the new special levy on banks. This promised to Chancellor George Osborne. "People who do this for our civil service are protected against this bank tax. We will compensate anyone who is affected by this bank tax," said Osborne BBC.

Information on the number of people affected or the amount of potential payments he did not. In Cyprus, some 3000 British soldiers, as well as many government employees are stationed. Tens of thousands of British civilians living on the island.


The full article's here, but I've just pasted stuff we didn't (or I didn't) already know.

translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl...sung-von-Banken.html

What did I say ? :)

Yes, you were right.....I was silly to think otherwise.
Last Edit: 17 Mar 2013 12:43 by pheony.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 12:28 #48

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humanspirit wrote:
Would you agree that in reality using a bank to get a small profit from peoples savings is just greed via investment in unethical business?

Speaking of greed and lack of ethics -

Former BoC chief wins €2m in compensation compromise

By Elias Hazou
Published on March 15, 2013

UNDER threat of litigation, the Bank of Cyprus (BoC) has awarded former CEO Andreas Eliades compensation to the tune of some €2 million.
The move comes after a majority decision of the bank board last Friday. No money has been disbursed yet; given that the bank has requested state assistance, the final say rests with regulatory authority, the Central Bank.
On resigning his post in July last year, Eliades demanded €3.5m in total. The €2m figure awarded last week is seen as a compromise.
It’s understood that Eliades had taken out a €1.9m loan from the bank; so his compensation covers the amount he owed plus a little extra.
Sources said the bank’s leadership were in two minds, but buckled under pressure from the provident fund committee, which in turn had been threatened with lawsuits by Eliades.
Some in the bank thought Eliades’ demands from the provident fund to be inflated.
Provident fund payouts are based on the salary. In the past, Eliades had received a bonus – linked to bank profits – that far exceeded the limit set out in his contract. To overcome this restriction in the contract, a formula was devised so that part of the sum would be logged as salary and the rest as a bonus.
But the one-off arrangement had the side-effect of raising Eliades’ salary on paper, and thus also increasing his retirement benefits.
On leaving, Eliades asked for the full provident fund he felt he was entitled to, as per the previous arrangement. Initially the bank was averse, and at that point Eliades sued each member of the provident fund committee individually.
Legal precedent in Cyprus has established that provident benefits must be paid irrespective of any other financial dispute between an employer and an employee.
Apparently faced with the prospect of being dragged to court, the bank’s provident fund committee urged the board not to contest Eliades on this point.
In Eliades’ case, his bonuses have had an impact on the compensation figure, even if in a roundabout way. But some in the bank dispute the very bonuses paid out over the years to the former strongman.
It’s understood that during his stint as CEO, Eliades received around €1.8m in bonuses.
Sources close to the BoC said at least some of these bonuses were linked to posted bank profits which, in hindsight, were “artificial given what we now know about the last couple of years.”
It would be best for the BoC to have withheld compensation until ongoing probes into possible bank malpractice are completed, the sources said.
They were referring, among others, to an independent investigation conducted by Alvarez & Marsal, a US-based firm hired last August to identify how the island’s largest banks ended up needing billions of euros in bailout money.
The sources even suggested that, should these investigations find that certain people were responsible - through actions or omissions – for the state of BoC today, the bank could ask these people to return their bonuses.


www.cyprus-mail.com/bank-cyprus/former-b...-compromise/20130315
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 12:35 #49

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They're thinking of not opening the banks on Tuesday and keeping them closed for longer...Oh dear! :villagers:
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 12:39 #50

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pheony wrote:
They're thinking of not opening the banks on Tuesday and keeping them closed for longer...Oh dear! :villagers:

They've no choice now. Not with people trying to break into banks with bulldozers.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 12:45 #51

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from Business Insider

You can be forgiven for thinking that you don't need to give a hoot about what's going on in Cyprus this weekend.

After all, it's just a little island somewhere in the Mediterranean.
but what's going on in Cyprus could actually matter--not just to the rest of Europe, but to the rest of the world.
Here's the short version of what's happening:
Cyprus's banks, like many banks in Europe, are bankrupt.
Cyprus went to the Eurozone to get a bailout, the same way Ireland, Greece, and other European countries have.
The Eurozone powers-that-be gave Cyprus a bailout--but with a startling condition that has never before been imposed on any major banking system since the start of the global financial crisis in 2008.

The Eurozone powers-that-be (mainly, Germany) insisted that the depositors in Cyprus's banks pay part of the tab.
Not the bondholders.
The depositors. The folks who had their money in the banks for safe-keeping.
When Cyprus's banks reopen on Tuesday morning, every depositor will have some of his or her money seized. Accounts under 100,000 euros will have 6.75% of the funds seized. Accounts over 100,000 euros will have 9.9% seized. And then the Eurozone's emergency lending facility and the International Monetary Fund will inject 10 billion euros into the banks to allow them to keep operating.

Cyprus's government tried to explain this deal by observing that it was better than the alternative: Immediate bankruptcy and closure of the major banks. In that scenario, depositors would lose a lot more of their money. Businesses would go bankrupt. And tens of thousands of people would be instantly thrown out of work.

But, still, not surprisingly, news that deposits in Cyprus's banks would be seized triggered an immediate run on the banks.
Depositors rushed to ATMs and tried to withdraw their money before it could be seized.
But the ATMs weren't working. And the government has now made it impossible to transfer money out of the country.
So, assuming Cyprus's government approves the deal (still pending), depositors will have some of their money seized on Tuesday morning.

Now, half of these depositors are said to be Russian oligarchs and other non-residents. And unless you happen to have the misfortune of having an account in a Cyprus bank, you may not care much whether these depositors have their money seized.

After all, that was the risk they took for storing their money in bankrupt banks, right?
Well, yes, that was the risk they took.
But ever since the Great Depression wiped out a big percentage of the world's banks, vaporizing the bank depositors' savings in the process, banking system regulators have tried to do everything they can to protect bank depositors.
And they are smart to do so.

Because the moment depositors think that there is risk to their savings, they rush to banks to yank their money out.
That's called a run on the bank.
And since no bank anywhere has enough cash on hand to pay off all its depositors at once, runs on the bank cause banks to go bust.
That's what happened to hundreds of banks in the Great Depression.

And it's what happened to Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, and other huge banks during the financial crisis (though, with Bear and Lehman, the folks who yanked their money out weren't mom and pop depositors but other big financial institutions). It's what threatened to bring the entire U.S. financial system to its knees. And it's why the US and European governments have been frantically bailing out banks ever since.

But now, thanks to Eurozone's bizarre decision in Cyprus, the illusion that depositors don't need to yank their money out of threatened banks because they'll be protected has been shattered.

Depositors in Cyprus banks will lose some of their deposits.
They will be furious about this.
And they will, rightly, feel that it is grossly unfair--because depositors in the bailed-out banks in Ireland, Greece, etc. didn't lose their money.
And they will feel like fools for not having taken their money out.
and...here's the important part...
Other depositors at weak banks all over Europe, in places like Spain, Italy, and Greece, will rightly wonder whether this is the beginning of a new era of bank bailouts, an era in which bank depositors are going lose some of their money.
What do you think those other depositors in Spain, Italy, Greece, etc., are going to feel like doing when they realize that, if their banks ever need a bailout, they might have their deposits seized?
That's right.
They're going to feel like yanking their money out of their banks.
And if some of them yank their money out of their banks, well--then the financial condition of those banks will go from weak to insolvent.
And the banks will go rushing to their governments and the Eurozone for help.
And if, god forbid, the Eurozone decides to seize the deposits of more bank depositors...
Well, then, a good portion of Europe is going to suddenly experience a good old-fashioned bank run.

That, to put it mildly, could be a disaster.
It could bring the European financial crisis, which has lurched from one flare-up to another for most of the past five years, to a rather sudden head.
How much would it cost for the powers-that-be to bail out all of Europe's weak banks at once?
A lot.
More than the Eurozone has in its emergency lending facilities, certainly. And more than the International Monetary Fund has on hand.
So the U.S. would probably have to get involved.
And, regardless of whether the U.S. needed to get involved, the European economy would likely suffer the equivalent of a heart attack.
That wouldn't be good for the U.S. economy.
Or the Chinese economy.
Or any other economy that sells things to Europe.

So, you can see, this little decision to seize a little money from bank depositors in the little island of Cyprus could be a much bigger deal than you think.
It could conceivably precipitate a run on weak European banks.
And a run on weak European banks could hammer the European economy and then the economy of Europe's trading partners. And it could cause global markets to crash.

So keep an eye on what's going on over there in Cyprus.
It's potentially much more important than it seems.

Read more: www.businessinsider.com/cyprus-bailout-r...2013-3#ixzz2NnfctIpW
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 12:48 #52

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It also makes a lot of sense to test out/refine your civil containment plans on a relatively small island first rather than a mainland location.

Not that I'm a cynic or anything but the whole thing has a litmus test vibe imo.
Last Edit: 17 Mar 2013 12:57 by feather.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 13:15 #53

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feather wrote:
It also makes a lot of sense to test out/refine your civil containment plans on a relatively small island first rather than a mainland location.

Not that I'm a cynic or anything but the whole thing has a litmus test vibe imo.

Yup. Guess where a lot of Greeks have their cash? Why didn't they do something similar on Greek banks previously? As you say, harder to control.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 13:21 #54

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What we need to do is research which banks are weak right now, perhaps make a list in order of precariousness ?

Its a bank hol in Ireland too tomorrow cos of paddys day.
Even with the bank open and you go in person I think theres a limit of 3000 quid withdrawal without notice. I think they want like 2 weeks notice for more than that.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 13:44 #55

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andyh wrote:
What we need to do is research which banks are weak right now, perhaps make a list in order of precariousness ?

Its a bank hol in Ireland too tomorrow cos of paddys day.
Even with the bank open and you go in person I think theres a limit of 3000 quid withdrawal without notice. I think they want like 2 weeks notice for more than that.

Stay clear of countries offering high interest saving accounts maybe.
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Last Edit: 17 Mar 2013 13:50 by humanspirit.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 13:52 #56

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Isn't this clause only applicable to depositors in Cypriot banks, so surely it's "pay 10% of your savings to save Cyprus" (rly 9.9% on deposits over £100,000/6.75% below £100,000), and then EU will provide a £10billion bailout package for the country.
Mr Asmussen justified the measure by saying it broadened the number of people who will shoulder the burden of the bailout. Without the measures, he said, much of it would fall on Cypriot taxpayers; by going after all large deposit holders – many of whom are Russian or British – outsiders would help fund the rescue.
Why shouldn't they, they helped create the problem.

So now you have people with over £100,000 in their banks trying to withdraw as much as possible to qualify for the lowest rate, it's no wonder they want to keep the banks shut, all in all it strikes me as a more progressive bailout than other countries have obtained, with much of the burden falling with those who can afford it:
Further measures agreed with the Eurogroup members concern the increase of the withholding tax on capital income, a restructuring and recapitalisation of banks, an increase of the statutory corporate income tax rate and a bail-in of junior bondholders.

Excluded from the international capital markets, Cyprus applied for financial assistance in June 2012 after its two largest banks sought state support, following write downs of Greek bonds amounting to €4.5 billion, as a result of the Greek sovereign debt haircut.

The Cypriot financial assistance package is estimated at 17.5 billion, of which 10 billion will be provided by the ESM and the IMF. The one-off tax levy is estimated to yield €5.8 billion, while the remaining amount will emerge from a privatization programme, a capital gains tax increase and a 2.5% increase in the Cypriot corporate tax, currently at 10%.
famagusta-gazette.com/ecb-tell-cyprus-to...uesday-p18554-69.htm

Some people are so greedy, if you had £100,000 saving 10% would be £10,000 leaving you with £90,000 savings, you're not going to starve :)

Who do they expect to foot the bill of the bailout? The poor, like in Greece or other countries by instituting "austerity measures" or those who can afford it with a corporation tax increases and one off levy on all deposits?

I know which I would choose.

I'd gladly send cyprus 10% of my savings if they'll take a check for 33pence.
Last Edit: 17 Mar 2013 13:55 by Mike.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 13:57 #57

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andyh wrote:
What we need to do is research which banks are weak right now, perhaps make a list in order of precariousness ?

Its a bank hol in Ireland too tomorrow cos of paddys day.
Even with the bank open and you go in person I think theres a limit of 3000 quid withdrawal without notice. I think they want like 2 weeks notice for more than that.

Well if I could just find the article I posted a few weeks ago, after giving much info on what we're seeing now, it was offering to give advice on how to look after yourself in this eventuality - you had to sign up to a subscription for their financial magazine. I didn't bother since I've nowt to invest.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 14:01 #58

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Gilly wrote:
andyh wrote:
What we need to do is research which banks are weak right now, perhaps make a list in order of precariousness ?

Its a bank hol in Ireland too tomorrow cos of paddys day.
Even with the bank open and you go in person I think theres a limit of 3000 quid withdrawal without notice. I think they want like 2 weeks notice for more than that.

Well if I could just find the article I posted a few weeks ago, after giving much info on what we're seeing now, it was offering to give advice on how to look after yourself in this eventuality - you had to sign up to a subscription for their financial magazine. I didn't bother since I've nowt to invest.

Thats the very article that made my man, and half the men where he works, ALL look into alternative methods of investing including gold.

I'll try and remember where it was.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 14:03 #59

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Found it via my emails.

pro.moneyweek.com/myk-eob/LMYKP220/
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 17 Mar 2013 14:07 #60

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Found it eventually - wish I'd left it to you, Sket! I had to wade through all the tripe I've posted. :D

pro.moneyweek.com/myk-eob/LMYKP220/
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