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TOPIC: Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone

Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 22 Mar 2013 21:28 #441

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Damned right it's robbery! And I've not got round to reading up other than what's been posted here. Thank you for the updates. What reason did Troika give for upping the ante? They might as well treble it!
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 22 Mar 2013 21:36 #442

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Ugh...just keeps getting worse.
On top of all this they are now talking of rationing the gas supply, which will result in power cuts over here. Wonder what 'they'll' try and pull while the leccy's off?
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/...st-time-8544975.html
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Last Edit: 22 Mar 2013 21:43 by angelchemuel.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 22 Mar 2013 21:40 #443

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Gilly wrote:
Damned right it's robbery! And I've not got round to reading up other than what's been posted here. Thank you for the updates. What reason did Troika give for upping the ante? They might as well treble it!
Just the usual politicking language. Stealing from deposit accounts is an unprecedented act, quite possibly criminal, morally reprehensible, and really the final straw because it tells the people that they're totally fucked. What the politicians would do if they had any guts would be default, exit the Eurozone, and explain to people that things are going to get pretty bad, we don't know how bad, but this is the only way out of it that doesn't involve a lot more pain later down the line. They should be requesting a delegation from Iceland not Britain, asking them how they coped, and telling the IMF to piss off. That's their only hope. That could trigger a total collapse of the Eurozone, but it's fucked anyway.

What will happen now is that some of their banking structure will change, quite radically actually, things will calm down for a while, providing the people don't kick off to shit. But it'll all come back to haunt them later down the line because this will solve none of the structural problems whatsoever, and they then can't go back to the people again and rob their savings again, which was the last straw solution this time, because they've lost all credibility.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 22 Mar 2013 21:42 #444

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I wish I'd taken the time to read up on Iceland previously.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 22 Mar 2013 21:45 #445

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Gilly wrote:
I wish I'd taken the time to read up on Iceland previously.
There are a couple of fairly short articles here that tell you in basic terms what they did:

jugglingdynamite.com/2012/02/03/what-we-...om-icelands-default/

www.businessinsider.com/iceland-default-2011-11?op=1
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
Last Edit: 22 Mar 2013 21:45 by wake_up_bomb.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 22 Mar 2013 22:44 #446

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Quick...somebody tell the Cypriots
Hacker reveals Panama is German tax haven

RT News

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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 22 Mar 2013 23:32 #447

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
Gilly wrote:
I wish I'd taken the time to read up on Iceland previously.
There are a couple of fairly short articles here that tell you in basic terms what they did:

jugglingdynamite.com/2012/02/03/what-we-...om-icelands-default/

www.businessinsider.com/iceland-default-2011-11?op=1

WUB, I'm thinking you're The Oracle. :)

Cheers for that. I absolutely will read them - just a bit shaken up tonight and incapable of being sensible. Tomorrow I'll knuckle down, because I want to know. Thank you.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 23 Mar 2013 00:39 #448

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wake_up_bomb wrote:
Gilly wrote:
I wish I'd taken the time to read up on Iceland previously.
There are a couple of fairly short articles here that tell you in basic terms what they did:

jugglingdynamite.com/2012/02/03/what-we-...om-icelands-default/

www.businessinsider.com/iceland-default-2011-11?op=1

So Iceland created new banks and left the old banks with the foreign debt.

So why don't other countries dump their foreign debt this way?

Also which countries have the most foreign debt,is it the smaller countries?
naivety attracts evil and evil attracts naivety
Last Edit: 23 Mar 2013 00:39 by humanspirit.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 23 Mar 2013 00:40 #449

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angelchemuel wrote:
feather wrote:
You have to wonder if the cost of the cure will be worse than the disease.

Hasn't that always been the case when it comes to situations like this?

In the meantime as we await news...I found this lot....I believe in looking at different perspectives in the hope of getting a balanced view.
I want to state now, that I am in no way religious.....but the following has got me thinking. Ignore the religious backgrounds, just read and watch the info.
The quote is from a comment about the vid.
UK and other countries migrated from a Christian framework within which the financial world operated to a Jewish framework within which the financial world operated. So the financial world is now in conformity with Jewish law. Whereas in the past it was Christian. Similar in countries like Turkey except it was formally Islaamic law not Christian
However both UK and Turkey now live in a financial system that conforms to Jewish rabinical law. Under the Jewish rabbinical system it is forbidden for a Jew to loan to a non-Jew unless you charge Interest. And under the same system it is forbidden for a Jew to loan to another Jew unless it is free of interest. So for Jews the present system is a religious obligation.



:jane:
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Jane , that is sort of a 'anti-jew' outlook.

Unless of course you think Jews rule the world?

I;m sure your not prejudged however that seems a bit daming
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 23 Mar 2013 00:44 #450

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Jane that video you posted never mentioned Jews at all :conf:
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 23 Mar 2013 08:31 #451

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Gilly wrote:
WUB, I'm thinking you're The Oracle. :)

Cheers for that. I absolutely will read them - just a bit shaken up tonight and incapable of being sensible. Tomorrow I'll knuckle down, because I want to know. Thank you.
Don't worry, it's not good to be sensible all the time.
humanspirit wrote:
So Iceland created new banks and left the old banks with the foreign debt.

So why don't other countries dump their foreign debt this way?

Also which countries have the most foreign debt,is it the smaller countries?
In answer to your first question, I think there are three reasons. There might be other ones, but these are the ones that come to mind.

Firstly, a lot of very prominent and ruthless people put a lot of pressure on these countries to conform. We can only guess what is said behind closed doors, but when you have such a huge and powerful 'international community', a lot of pressure can be put on a small country like Cyprus. At the same time, the same people probably tell them that if they go along with the 'bailouts' that everything will work out okay. And the politicians are inclined to believe this for the next two reasons.

Secondly, politicians like short-term solutions because it gets them off the hook. By the time there are any consequences to their actions it might well be someone else's problem.

Thirdly, most politicians are economically illiterate, so they don't really understand what is going on anyway. Certainly if you put them up against the top people from these ruthless financial institutions and banks, they haven't got a chance of standing up to them unless it's painstakingly explained to them what's going on, because for the most part they will have no idea whatsoever.

In answer to the second question, the United States is the biggest debtor nation in history by a considerable distance. You can see this here:

www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-wor...korder/2187rank.html

If you're looking for the US, try starting at the bottom. Note that the source of that information is the United States Central Intelligence Agency, so it's pretty uncontentious.

If you look at the top of that list, you'll note that number 1 is Germany, the primary player in the Cyprus 'crisis' and pretty much all the other top nations are either from the 'newly industrialising countries', or East, and / or oil / gold rich nations. Most of the nations that are thought of as being wealthy are near the bottom.

But you also have to take into consideration the size of the economy, so there is a lot that the US could do to turn things around. They are one nation that could actually pay back its debts, but it would take a radical reorganisation of the economy, and they'd have to hurt all the wealthy financial sector, corporate and special interest groups that currently run the country.

It's probably hard to say definitively what the world's most indebted nation is in practical terms, but you can see the level of debt it a lot of major nations here:

www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html#

The reason that small countries like Cyprus are targeted first is simply because they can be put under the most pressure in the shortest amount of time. If you look at the first phase of 'bailouts', they picked off all the smaller nations first before putting pressure on Spain and Italy.
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Last Edit: 23 Mar 2013 08:34 by wake_up_bomb.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 23 Mar 2013 09:03 #452

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humanspirit wrote:
So Iceland created new banks and left the old banks with the foreign debt.

So why don't other countries dump their foreign debt this way?

Too heavily infiltrated id say.

Look at Italy and Greece for example...
Italy and Greece: rule by the bankers

It looks as though, by Monday, both Greece and Italy will be ruled by so-called ‘technocratic’ governments. Even though both Greek prime minister George Papandreou and Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi were elected comfortably in parliamentary polls and were never defeated in any vote of confidence in parliament, they have been ousted – to be replaced by unelected ex-central bankers and former executives of hedge funds and investment banks. From now on, financial markets will rule directly over the lives of the Italian and Greek people.

Read More: thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2011/11/1...rule-by-the-bankers/

The bankers want the people to pay for it all, including future generations.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 23 Mar 2013 11:23 #453

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dawnbreak wrote:
angelchemuel wrote:
feather wrote:
You have to wonder if the cost of the cure will be worse than the disease.

Hasn't that always been the case when it comes to situations like this?

In the meantime as we await news...I found this lot....I believe in looking at different perspectives in the hope of getting a balanced view.
I want to state now, that I am in no way religious.....but the following has got me thinking. Ignore the religious backgrounds, just read and watch the info.
The quote is from a comment about the vid.
UK and other countries migrated from a Christian framework within which the financial world operated to a Jewish framework within which the financial world operated. So the financial world is now in conformity with Jewish law. Whereas in the past it was Christian. Similar in countries like Turkey except it was formally Islaamic law not Christian
However both UK and Turkey now live in a financial system that conforms to Jewish rabinical law. Under the Jewish rabbinical system it is forbidden for a Jew to loan to a non-Jew unless you charge Interest. And under the same system it is forbidden for a Jew to loan to another Jew unless it is free of interest. So for Jews the present system is a religious obligation.



:jane:
Jane


Jane , that is sort of a 'anti-jew' outlook.

Unless of course you think Jews rule the world?

I;m sure your not prejudged however that seems a bit daming

It's just wrong. Jews did not pioneer lending with interest, nor have Jewish laws any relevance to business practices. They only entered the Western psyche for doing so because Christians used them to bypass taboos on it, taboos that didn't last all that long. You can see a table (well it was a table until I just copied and pasted the text) of ancient interest rates here that don't come from Jews. It's not like paying interest wasn't a well developed idea in the West irrespective of Jews.

Region Smallest Fractional Unit Normal rate of Interest
Bronze Age Mesopotamia 1/60th 1 shekel per month per mina owed. In the decimal system, 1 2/3 per cent = 20 per cent per year.
Classical Greece 1/10th 10 per cent per year (dekate)
Classical Rome 1/12th 8 1/3 per cent (1/12th) per year (uncia)
Byzantium – before Justinian 1/100th lb. (1 nomismata) 12 per cent per year
” – Justinian a siliqua per solidus 5 per cent+ per year
” – after Constantine 1/72nd lb. (1 new nomismata) 8 1/3 per cent (1/12th) per year (=6/72nds)

michael-hudson.com/2000/03/how-interest-...set-2500-bc-1000-ad/

Capitalism is build around debt and interest payments. And the people who built modern capitalism couldn't give a shit about any Jewish laws.
Last Edit: 23 Mar 2013 11:27 by dogsmilk.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 23 Mar 2013 12:44 #454

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First....this is what I said
I want to state now, that I am in no way religious.....but the following has got me thinking. Ignore the religious backgrounds, just read and watch the info.

Second
In this episode, Jesus is stated to have visited the Temple in Jerusalem, Herod's Temple, where the courtyard is described as being filled with livestock and the tables of the money changers, who changed the standard Greek and Roman money for Jewish and Tyrian money.[1] Jerusalem was packed with Jews who had come for Passover, perhaps numbering 300,000 to 400,000 pilgrims.[5][6]

Creating a whip from some cords, "he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables. But he said to those who sold doves, ‘Get these out of here! Do not make My Father’s house a house of trade!’"[Jn 2:13-16]

Israel Museum model of Herod's Temple, referred to in John 2:13."And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all of them who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."
—Matthew 21:12-13

In Mark 12:40 and Luke 20:47 Jesus again accuses the Temple authorities of thieving and this time names poor widows as their victims going on to provide evidence of this in Mark 12:42 and Luke 21:2. Dove sellers were selling doves that were sacrificed by the poor who could not afford grander sacrifices and specifically by women. According to Mark 11:16, Jesus then put an embargo on people carrying any merchandise through the temple—a sanction that would have disrupted all commerce.[4][7]

from....the bible, and....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple

Just to give you a visual


Thirdly,
Jewish pilgrims pray at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem's old city in 2009. New research has found Jews share a genetic bond with Cypriots and Druze and confirms the Jewish diaspora maintained a strong DNA continuity despite its long separation from the Middle East, scientists said on Wednesday.

New research has found Jews share a genetic bond with Cypriots and Druze and confirms the Jewish diaspora maintained a strong DNA continuity despite its long separation from the Middle East, scientists said on Wednesday.

From
phys.org/news195313667.html

I have picked up my whip against the banking system in my own small way...have you?
Can we get get back on topic now please?
:jane:
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Last Edit: 23 Mar 2013 12:53 by angelchemuel.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 23 Mar 2013 12:56 #455

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angelchemuel wrote:
It's all Greek to me. :rofl:
naivety attracts evil and evil attracts naivety
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 23 Mar 2013 13:15 #456

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From angels link...
More unexpected, though, was the discovery that Jewish patterns of SNPs were closer to those of Cypriots and Druze than with the other populations of the Middle East.

Not so unexpected tbh given that cypriots (at least on one side :hahano: ) are greek origin, and i have read this and things similar before... heres the cut and paste of where most of the DNA studies are mentioned ...
Hammer et al. add that "Diaspora Jews from Europe, Northwest Africa, and the Near East resemble each other more closely than they resemble their non-Jewish neighbors." In addition, the non-Jewish components in Ashkenazim and Sephardim are generally South European, specifically Greek.

Investigations made by Nebel et al.[2] on the genetic relationships among Ashkenazi Jews, Kurdish and Sephardi (North Africa, Turkey, Iberian Peninsula, Iraq and Syria) indicate that Jews are more genetically similar to groups in northern Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks and Armenians) than to Arabs.

A 2006 study by Seldin et al. used over five thousand autosomal SNPs to demonstrate European genetic substructure. The results showed "a consistent and reproducible distinction between 'northern' and 'southern' European population groups". Most northern, central, and eastern Europeans (Finns, Swedes, English, Irish, Germans, and Ukrainians) showed >90% in the 'northern' population group, while most individual participants with southern European ancestry (Italians, Greeks, Portuguese, Spaniards) showed >85% in the 'southern' group. Both Ashkenazi Jews as well as Sephardic Jews showed >85% membership in the "southern" group.

Referring to the Jews clustering with southern Europeans, the authors state the results were "consistent with a later Mediterranean origin of these ethnic groups".

A 2007 study by Bauchet et al. found that Ashkenazi Jews were most closely clustered with Arabic North African populations when compared to the global population of that study, and in the European structure analysis, they share genetic similarities with Greeks and Southern Italians, reflecting their east Mediterranean origins


table.jpg

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

As for the other half of the island, well turks and greeks dont have dissimilar dna despite their differences. :hahano:
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 23 Mar 2013 13:25 #457

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angelchemuel wrote:
First....this is what I said
I want to state now, that I am in no way religious.....but the following has got me thinking. Ignore the religious backgrounds, just read and watch the info.

Second
In this episode, Jesus is stated to have visited the Temple in Jerusalem, Herod's Temple, where the courtyard is described as being filled with livestock and the tables of the money changers, who changed the standard Greek and Roman money for Jewish and Tyrian money.[1] Jerusalem was packed with Jews who had come for Passover, perhaps numbering 300,000 to 400,000 pilgrims.[5][6]

Creating a whip from some cords, "he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables. But he said to those who sold doves, ‘Get these out of here! Do not make My Father’s house a house of trade!’"[Jn 2:13-16]

Israel Museum model of Herod's Temple, referred to in John 2:13."And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all of them who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."
—Matthew 21:12-13

In Mark 12:40 and Luke 20:47 Jesus again accuses the Temple authorities of thieving and this time names poor widows as their victims going on to provide evidence of this in Mark 12:42 and Luke 21:2. Dove sellers were selling doves that were sacrificed by the poor who could not afford grander sacrifices and specifically by women. According to Mark 11:16, Jesus then put an embargo on people carrying any merchandise through the temple—a sanction that would have disrupted all commerce.[4][7]

from....the bible, and....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple

Just to give you a visual


Thirdly,
Jewish pilgrims pray at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem's old city in 2009. New research has found Jews share a genetic bond with Cypriots and Druze and confirms the Jewish diaspora maintained a strong DNA continuity despite its long separation from the Middle East, scientists said on Wednesday.

New research has found Jews share a genetic bond with Cypriots and Druze and confirms the Jewish diaspora maintained a strong DNA continuity despite its long separation from the Middle East, scientists said on Wednesday.

From
phys.org/news195313667.html

I have picked up my whip against the banking system in my own small way...have you?
Can we get get back on topic now please?
:jane:
Jane

?????????

How does Jesus and the money changers and all that in any way demonstrate "Jewish law" has anything to do with contemporary capitalism or demonstrate the odd claim that Christians took on a "Jewish framework"? It's easily demonstrable that lending with interest happened all over the place and IIRC Christian merchants in the middle ages were doing it even when it was nominally a no no.

I'm totally bewildered as to what genetic links Jewish people have with Cypriots have to do with anything.

I'm also unsure how you can ignore the religion when your entire argument is based on religion.
I have picked up my whip against the banking system in my own small way...have you?

???
Last Edit: 23 Mar 2013 13:27 by dogsmilk.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 23 Mar 2013 13:31 #458

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dogsmilk wrote:
I'm totally bewildered as to what genetic links Jewish people have with Cypriots have to do with anything.

Even though i replied to that to say it is not suprising, i dont know what it has to do with anything either. :hahano:
Y11
Last Edit: 23 Mar 2013 13:32 by novum.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 23 Mar 2013 13:38 #459

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@Novum.Thank you for that. So now we have established the 'Adam and Eve', I hope anybody who thinks I am racist in any way will stop accusing me of such. I take everyone as individuals, I take as I find.

Back OT. Slovenia have now come into the mix. They are looking for a bailout later this year...what happens with Cyprus will determine their 'fate' too. As it looks like the Cypriot government are about to sell their citizens and sovereignty down the swanny. IMHO, if what is about to happen in Cyprus doesn't bring down the euro with people rebelling, then Slovenia will.
(Reuters) - European Central Bank Governing Council member Marko Kranjec said on Friday he was very sure that Slovenia would not follow in the footsteps of Cyprus, which is struggling to secure an international bailout to stay afloat.

Banks in Slovenia are nursing some 7 billion euros ($9.05 billion) of bad loans, equal to about 20 percent of GDP, underpinning persistent speculation that the country might have to follow other vulnerable euro zone countries in seeking a bailout.

Asked by Reuters at a business conference on Friday whether Slovenia could avoid a bailout, Kranjec said "Yes".

"I am very sure that we (Slovenia) will not get into such a situation (as Cyprus)," Kranjec, who is also the Bank of Slovenia governor, told reporters on the sidelines of the conference.

www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/22/us-ec...dUSBRE92L0AX20130322

This is not what they have just been reporting on RT...think what Kranjec said on Friday is jst trying to 'still the waters'.
Can down the road anyone?

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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 23 Mar 2013 13:50 #460

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@ dogsmilk.
UK and other countries migrated from a Christian framework within which the financial world operated to a Jewish framework within which the financial world operated. So the financial world is now in conformity with Jewish law. Whereas in the past it was Christian.

That was a quote from what somebody else had said...not me. It also backs up the evidence you presented.
So why are you having a pop at me?
How does Jesus and the money changers and all that in any way demonstrate "Jewish law"
I was only trying to demonstrate the banksters and their 'theft'. I'm sorry if I am not getting across what I am trying to explain.


dogsmilk wrote:
I'm totally bewildered as to what genetic links Jewish people have with Cypriots have to do with anything.

Even though i replied to that to say it is not suprising, i dont know what it has to do with anything either.

Oh duh...it's called irony given that this thread is about the situation in Cyprus!
:jane:
Jane
"love it better"
the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war
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