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TOPIC: Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone

Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 16:08 #501

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DO all you people who are anti banks use banks?
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 16:11 #502

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Mike wrote:
DO all you people who are anti banks use banks?

Maybe you didn't read earlier in the thread where I pointed out that the vast majority of employers will only pay wages directly into a bank account, so most (employed) people have no choice but to have one.
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 16:23 #503

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Interest rates that we get on our savings is derived from bank's lending:
You open a savings account at the bank.
The bank pays you interest on the money that you deposit and leave in that account.
The bank then loans that money out to other people, only they charge a slightly higher interest rate on the loan than what they pay you for your account.

The difference in interest they pay you verses the interest they charge others is part of how they stay in business.
money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance...savings-accounts.htm
Banks can't lend without depositors and I see a lot of people here saying the problem is that banks are lending money?

I know many people prefer to invest their money as the interest rates are higher so they can maximise their savings, that's what everyday people are doing, making the most of the system, cashing in, and feeding the speculative investment market, then they need a bailout and aren't happy when their savings are taxed to provide a fraction of the bailout package, I think the EU was right to raise the price :)
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 16:27 #504

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but they don't loan that money out that you deposit
my limbless friend will die alone
a torso of flesh upon the throne

Violence is not the answer, it is the question. the answer is yes.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 16:43 #505

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Deposits go onto the balance sheet which as far as I'm aware is what the banks loan with.
be nice if somebody could clarify.
wiki:
In the audited financial statements of the bank, on the balance sheet, the $100 in currency would be shown as an asset of the bank on the left side of the balance sheet, and the deposit account would be shown as a liability owed by the bank to its customer, on the right side of the balance sheet. The bank's financial statement reflects the economic substance of the transaction—which is that the bank has actually borrowed $100 from its depositor and has contractually obliged itself to repay the customer according to the terms of the demand deposit account agreement. To offset this deposit liability, the bank now owns the actual, physical funds deposited, and the bank shows those funds as an asset of the bank.

Typically, an account provider will not hold the entire sum in reserve, but will loan all or most of the money out to other clients, in a process known as fractional-reserve banking. This process allows providers to earn interest on the asset and hence to pay out interest on deposits.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deposit_account
Last Edit: 24 Mar 2013 16:48 by Mike.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 16:58 #506

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skip to about 8 minutes and see what you think
my limbless friend will die alone
a torso of flesh upon the throne

Violence is not the answer, it is the question. the answer is yes.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 17:17 #507

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Mike wrote:
Interest rates that we get on our savings is derived from bank's lending:
You open a savings account at the bank.
The bank pays you interest on the money that you deposit and leave in that account.
The bank then loans that money out to other people, only they charge a slightly higher interest rate on the loan than what they pay you for your account.

The difference in interest they pay you verses the interest they charge others is part of how they stay in business.
money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance...savings-accounts.htm
Banks can't lend without depositors and I see a lot of people here saying the problem is that banks are lending money?

I know many people prefer to invest their money as the interest rates are higher so they can maximise their savings, that's what everyday people are doing, making the most of the system, cashing in, and feeding the speculative investment market, then they need a bailout and aren't happy when their savings are taxed to provide a fraction of the bailout package, I think the EU was right to raise the price :)

Surely they must have lowered the bailout sum offered rather than 'raised the price' ?
If the EU are demanding 20% of the 100k+ deposits and 4% of the below 100k then they're after over twice the amount they asked for earlier despite earlier having been rejected by the cypriot parliament and since when is the EU right about anything?

Go dip your head in the bog and flush it Mike ffs lol.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 17:19 #508

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Mike wrote:
Deposits go onto the balance sheet which as far as I'm aware is what the banks loan with.
be nice if somebody could clarify.
wiki:
In the audited financial statements of the bank, on the balance sheet, the $100 in currency would be shown as an asset of the bank on the left side of the balance sheet, and the deposit account would be shown as a liability owed by the bank to its customer, on the right side of the balance sheet. The bank's financial statement reflects the economic substance of the transaction—which is that the bank has actually borrowed $100 from its depositor and has contractually obliged itself to repay the customer according to the terms of the demand deposit account agreement. To offset this deposit liability, the bank now owns the actual, physical funds deposited, and the bank shows those funds as an asset of the bank.

Typically, an account provider will not hold the entire sum in reserve, but will loan all or most of the money out to other clients, in a process known as fractional-reserve banking. This process allows providers to earn interest on the asset and hence to pay out interest on deposits.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deposit_account

They loan out well in excess of what is deposited.
When the people who all have in excess of 100k deposited get taxed 20% and then withdraw all the remaining 80% the banks will then need a humongous massive bailout AGAIN.
They quite simply will not be able to give people the money back, they don't have it.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 18:05 #509

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Just to clarify as well:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_requirement#United_Kingdom
The Bank of England holds to a voluntary reserve ratio system, with no minimum reserve requirement set. In theory this means that banks could retain zero reserves, effectively allowing an infinite amount of credit money creation. However, the average cash reserve ratio across the entire United Kingdom banking system is higher, with a 3.1% average as of 1998.
Obviously there is considerably less than a 3.1% reserve today, although no data is held anywhere.

Anyway, the retail banks that we see on the high street are basically irrelevant to what's going on. They get a lot of attention, but they have little or no compelling influence over the economic system.
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 18:08 #510

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It kind of makes me want to take two hammers to the sides of my head that after the huge amount of info posted here and on the wider web, some still don't get the truths of the banking system.

I demand a suitable emoticon :mad:
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 18:09 #511

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knobmeup wrote:
It kind of makes me want to take two hammers to the sides of my head that after the huge amount of info posted here and on the wider web, some still don't get the truths of the banking system.

I demand a suitable emoticon :mad:
What else can you do other than :dunno: ?
The true measure of a man is not his intelligence or how high he rises in this freak establishment. The true measure of a man is this: how quickly he can respond to the needs of others and how much of himself he can give - Philip K. Dick.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 18:10 #512

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knobmeup wrote:
It kind of makes me want to take two hammers to the sides of my head that after the huge amount of info posted here and on the wider web, some still don't get the truths of the banking system.

I demand a suitable emoticon :mad:

It'll be difficult to come up with one :)
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 18:16 #513

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I'm on it. I've dusted off me etch-a-sketch and will have a suitably crudely drawn emote within the hour.

It'll probably look a bit like a house though.
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
Last Edit: 24 Mar 2013 18:17 by dubmeup.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 20:30 #514

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I think everyone will get the message shortly about what banking is really all about if Cyprus actually defaults shortly.
No diagrams will be necessary lol
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 20:39 #515

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The phrase, "many a true word is spoken in jest" springs to mind Andy...
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 21:30 #516

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twitter.com/search?q=%23Eurogroup&src=hash

Look at this farce, they're still dicking around.
Rumours flying around the haircut wanted is now 50%!?!?

This is so in your face now, they(the eurocrats) WANT cyprus to default.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 21:37 #517

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The whole point of stacking dominos on their ends in close proximity is that one day you can just push one and watch the pretty pattern. Safe in the knowledge you still have all the dominos.
"laws are unenforceable if the majority break them."-humanspirit,
"avoid the concept of an ambassador for truth altogether"-gilly.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 21:38 #518

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Mike wrote:
So they should contribute more because they've cashed in on the housing boom, and made a quick buck when the gravy train was running smoothly, therefore they have the means to contribute more to a bailout they will benefit from aswell.
Or maybe you think Cypriots should get a 100% bailout, the Cypriot Government obviously thinks the economy needs one?

Well you are making assumptions here that everyone with deposits made a quick buck. Sure i mentioned housing, but that was just one example of why some might have large deposits. There are a lot of other reasons/factors to consider. And not everybody made money on housing either ofc, someone for example might be inbetween houses and parked the money and so on, or they sold a property and made nothing on it, perhaps even a loss.

Some have worked hard and saved hard, for a long time. Some self employed people even rely on savings as their pension or retirement funding, or it is their insurance policy when they have no other, and so on.

As for what i think the result of this action will be, I think it will be worse for the banking sector, you will see why i think that by reading my posts here, or some of andys.

Mike wrote:
The EU is attacking bankers salaries, they are capping them at a certain limit, quite a progressive move I think you'll agree?

sure, yep.

Mike wrote:
The last point has nothing to do with Cyprus, if we take the distinction earlier made by the Cypriot government in the rate of the levy : over 100k pays 10%, over 20k pays 6% less than 20k pays nothing, then this was specifically an attack on the upper level of depositors, what they settled on was more overtly putting the burden on the richest depositors in Cyprus:
Cyprus agrees to tax 20% on deposits over 100,000 and 4% for all other deposits.
So basically you're wrong if you think middle class is somebody with bank deposits over 100k imo.

I disagree, imo 100k is not a large amount in this day and age. :)

I see it as middle class territory regardless of your opinion.

To take 20k from a 100k account leaves even less.

If the 20 percent was applicable to balances much higher than 100k then i might be inclined to agree with you.

And given the interest rates in recent times, no one with 100k or more in the bank has made anywhere near 20 percent clear (after tax) in interest unless its been sitting for a very long time, so they lose by using banks. They are behind, not ahead.

If you do something financially and end up losing/behind, are you inclined to keep doing the same thing?

So...I think people who do have money to invest are much more likely to invest in other areas now because of the 20 percent grab, property, gold perhaps, and this will eventually add to the banks issues as andy has talked about.... but having said that bankers kicking the can further down the road doesmt suprise me in the least anymore tbh...its either that or they want things to fall apart.
Y11
Last Edit: 24 Mar 2013 23:01 by novum.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 21:41 #519

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andyh wrote:
They loan out well in excess of what is deposited.
When the people who all have in excess of 100k deposited get taxed 20% and then withdraw all the remaining 80% the banks will then need a humongous massive bailout AGAIN.
They quite simply will not be able to give people the money back, they don't have it.

I cant see anyone NOT wanting to get their money out after this, so yeah.

Thats exactly what i would do, try and get it out before they have a chance to take even more.
Y11
Last Edit: 24 Mar 2013 21:43 by novum.
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Pay 10% of Your Savings to Save the Eurozone 24 Mar 2013 21:48 #520

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3 times now irish ministers have gone on TV telling the irish public this could never happen here....

Cue..

/trollface.

:D
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