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TOPIC: Spain is Officially Insolvent

Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 09:07 #1

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blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jeremywarn...while-you-still-can/
Spain is officially insolvent: get your money out while you still can

I'd not noticed this until someone drew my attention to it, but the latest IMF Fiscal Monitor, published last month, comes about as close to declaring Spain insolvent as you are ever likely to see in official analysis of this sort. Of course, it doesn't actually say this outright. The IMF is far too diplomatic for such language. But that's the plain meaning of its latest forecasts, which at last have an air of realism about them, rather than being the usual dose of wishful thinking.

Let's take the projected budget deficit first. This is expected to decline quite steeply this year to 6.6 per cent of GDP, but that's mainly because the cost of bailing out the banking sector fell substantially on last year's budget. On a like-for-like basis, there has in fact been very little fall in the underlying deficit. And nor on the present policy mix is there ever likely to be, for that's where the deficit is projected to remain until the end of the IMF's forecasting horizon in 2018.

Next year, the deficit is expected to be 6.9 per cent, the year after 6.6 per cent, and so on with very little further progress thereafter. Remember, all these projections are made on the basis of everything we know about policy so far, so they take account of the latest package of austerity measures announced by the Spanish Government.

The situation looks even worse on a cyclically adjusted basis. What is sometimes called the "structural deficit", or the bit of government borrowing that doesn't go away even after the economy returns to growth (if indeed it ever does), actually deteriorates from an expected 4.2 per cent of GDP this year to 5.7 per cent in 2018. By 2018, Spain has far and away the worst structural deficit of any advanced economy, including other such well known fiscal basket cases as the UK and the US.

So what happens when you carry on borrowing at that sort of rate, year in, year out? Your overall indebtedness rockets, of course, and that's what's going to happen to Spain, where general government gross debt is forecast to rise from 84.1 per cent of GDP last year to 110.6 per cent in 2018. No other advanced economy has such a dramatically worsening outlook. And the tragedy of it all is that Spain is actually making relatively good progress in addressing the "primary balance", that's the deficit before debt servicing costs.

What's projected to occur is essentially what happens in all bankruptcies. Eventually you have to borrow more just to pay the interest on your existing debt. The fiscal compact requires eurozone countries to reduce their deficits to 3 per cent by the end of this year, though Spain among others was recently granted an extension. But on these numbers, there is no chance ever of achieving this target without further austerity measures, which even if they were attempted would very likely be self defeating. IN any case, it seems doubtful an economy where unemployment is already above 25 per cent could take any more.

In the past, the IMF has been guilty of being far too optimistic about Spain, both on the outlook for growth and the public finances, so it's possible it is now committing the reverse mistake of undue pessimism. Yet somehow I doubt it. Spain is chasing its tail down into deflationary oblivion.

All this leads to the conclusion that a big Spanish debt restructuring is inevitable. Spanish sovereign bond yields have fallen sharply since announcement of the European Central Bank's "outright monetary transactions" programme. The ECB has promised to print money without limit to counter the speculators. But in the end, no amount of liquidity can cover up for an underlying problem with solvency.

Europe said that Greece was the first and last such restructuring, but then there was Cyprus. Spain is holding off further recapitalisation of its banks in anticipation of the arrival of Europe's banking union, which it hopes will do the job instead. But if the Cypriot precedent is anything to go by, a heavy price will be demanded by way of recompense. Bank creditors will be widely bailed in. Confiscation of deposits looks all too possible.

I don't advise getting your money out lightly. Indeed, such advise is generally thought grossly irresponsible, for it risks inducing a self reinforcing panic. Yet looking at the IMF projections, it's the only rational thing to do.

PS. I don't include creditors of the British arm of Santander in this warning, who are ring fenced from the mothership back bome in Spain, theoretically at least.
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Last Edit: 12 May 2013 09:07 by wake_up_bomb.
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 09:13 #2

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Oh hell! Not that it's unexpected, but I have great sympathy for the people there.
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 09:20 #3

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WUB this is why I keep on asking you, if you had £50,000 quid coming (but no-where to live), sort of...........

Where do you hide that stash?

Answers in plain English please, Andyh that means you too :)
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 12:45 #4

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jhado wrote:
WUB this is why I keep on asking you, if you had £50,000 quid coming (but no-where to live), sort of...........

Where do you hide that stash?

Answers in plain English please, Andyh that means you too :)

You have 2 choices, invest in somewhere to live in the UK or perhaps something useful like a motor camper van or you move out of the uk permenantly, 50k would get you into oz as they require a 10k deposit iirc

Btw once Spain goes this would make my DIF prediction thread complete apart from the digital money bit
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 13:19 #5

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run but not hide
thank you St Jude for favours granted
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 13:45 #6

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mikey mikey wrote:
run but not hide

Aye key thing is get debt and rent/mortgage free
If you can do that and perhaps some self sufficiency into the bargain then your life will change
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 17:27 #7

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Watch them move into the future
Got a lot of catching up to do
Hope they take a lesson from their neighbours
That'll show 'em what not to do
Should've happened for them in the 30's
But the pleasure got caught in pain
Ended up like the bull in the china shop
Under the name of Spain
Under the name of Spain...


www.lyrics007.com/Stranglers%20Lyrics/Spain%20Lyrics.html
sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/spirituality-rel...html?start=20#116079
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 17:51 #8

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Ever since the euro came into play its been nothing but shit for everyone...I am sure hitler and company tried the same thing...



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum
www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 12 May 2013 17:53 by LightGiver.
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 18:04 #9

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European nobility and business elites helped create the ECSC (european steel and coal) which later gave way to the EEC which later gave way to the EU.
The primary driver was always business interests and it remains that way.

The EU itself however did NOT lead to the economic shitstorm we see today, that actually has more to do with fractional reserve banking and trading of non existent paper than merely just the euro. If you think this is just about a currency then you've not got it yet.
“Fascists are not human. A snake is more human.” - Hugo Chávez
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 18:16 #10

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Everything was OK until the euro/single currency appeared ,quite simple really...try not overcomplicate the situation eh..one day you just might get it ...

The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 12 May 2013 18:19 by LightGiver.
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 18:23 #11

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:eek2:
Great Britain on average gives £53 million each day (£371 million each week) to the EU...

Looks like spain and the rest are not taking a slice of the pie,where the hell is all the money going....now let me guess...

Making plans for nigel was born in Herne, Kent, on 3 April 1964, to Guy Justus Oscar Farage and Barbara Stevens. His father was a stockbroker in the City who left the family home when Nigel was five years old. Farage was educated at Dulwich College. In 1982 he joined the London commodity brokerage firm Drexel Burnham Lambert. In 1986, he joined Credit Lyonnais Rouse. He joined Refco in 1994, and Natexis Metals in 2003...

:smoking:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Farage
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 12 May 2013 18:32 by LightGiver.
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 18:36 #12

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Spain is officially insolvent: get your money out while you still can
Couldn't this potentially destabilize the entire Spanish and possibly EU economic system and drastically effect Spain's ability to produce and import commodities?
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 20:45 #13

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LightGiver wrote:
Ever since the euro came into play its been nothing but shit for everyone...I am sure hitler and company tried the same thing...

So am I.

Hitler & co didn't manage to get quite as far as a single european currency of course....but they had a good go at the old 'united states of europe' bit...
truth-zone.co.uk/ - the other place...

The pen is mightier than the sword
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 21:18 #14

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diamondgeezer wrote:
LightGiver wrote:
Ever since the euro came into play its been nothing but shit for everyone...I am sure hitler and company tried the same thing...

So am I.

Hitler & co didn't manage to get quite as far as a single european currency of course....but they had a good go at the old 'united states of europe' bit...

World war 2 was the precursor...just like 911 was...

www.thefreedictionary.com/precursor
sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/Paranormal--Myst...html?start=20#124185
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 12 May 2013 21:19 by LightGiver.
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 21:31 #15

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LightGiver wrote:
World war 2 was the precursor...just like 911 was...

On that basis, you might as well blame WW1 for being the precursor....because without it, WW2 wouldn't have happened.

See 'Treaty of Versailles'... ;)
truth-zone.co.uk/ - the other place...

The pen is mightier than the sword
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 21:37 #16

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diamondgeezer wrote:
LightGiver wrote:
World war 2 was the precursor...just like 911 was...

On that basis, you might as well blame WW1 for being the precursor....because without it, WW2 wouldn't have happened.
Thats correct,TPTB work in centurys, not years or weeks....



Elite Published Plan Just to Show/You'd be "All Dumbed Down and No Way to Know":


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century
cuttingthroughthematrix.com/transcripts/...Know_July122010.html
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 21:44 #17

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Yep....crush a people culturally & economically and what do you get? The emergence of extremism.

History teaches this lesson, and the Boys in Brussels have been very attentive pupils.... ;)
truth-zone.co.uk/ - the other place...

The pen is mightier than the sword
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 21:49 #18

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diamondgeezer wrote:
Yep....crush a people culturally & economically and what do you get? The emergence of extremism.

History teaches this lesson, and the Boys in Brussels have been very attentive pupils.... ;)

sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/family-dynasties...ieties.html?start=20

Tower Painting Parliament


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_of_Rome
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 12 May 2013 21:50 by LightGiver.
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 22:24 #19

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diamondgeezer wrote:
On that basis, you might as well blame WW1 for being the precursor....because without it, WW2 wouldn't have happened.

See 'Treaty of Versailles'... ;)



:hookah

sanctumzone.co.uk/forum/Recommended-Read...html?start=20#124207
The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you.. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!
Last Edit: 12 May 2013 22:26 by LightGiver.
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Spain is Officially Insolvent 12 May 2013 23:05 #20

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The Eu is a way better idea than keeping the Monarchy.
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